Comment by q1w2 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by q1w2 | Hacker News Reader

The numbers don't add up here. Walgreens closed 17 stores in SF - much more than anywhere else. ...and other retailers such as CVS have disproportionately closed stores in SF as well.

The article also doesn't dispute any of the numbers in regards to the staggering volume of theft, despite higher investments in store security. Combined with dozens of videos of blatant mass theft circulating on Youtube, I wonder if any amount of provable facts would convince the author. It's reminiscent of arguing with climate change deniers or evolution deniers where facts don't seem to matter.

The real question to the author is why? Why write a piece like this? Why defend organized crime? Is the desire to combat any narrative that the other team has so strong that they're willing to deny undeniable evidence?

This author admits he's political, but it's bizarre in this case because it's to the benefit of literal gangs of criminals ruining the city he lives in.

Are some people so entrenched by their politics that they're willing to defend those destroying their own community?

Target ... , and reduced hours on their other stores for the same reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jrnhaLzCqA

If you're referring to the Metreon target, this is some good old fashioned fake news. https://hoodline.com/2021/10/false-claim-of-target-closing-m...

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/target-shortens-hours-in-s...

> Target shortens hours in San Francisco due to ‘alarming rise’ in shoplifting

> “For more than a month, we’ve been experiencing a significant and alarming rise in theft and security incidents at our San Francisco stores, similar to reports from other retailers in the area. Target is engaging local law enforcement, elected officials and community partners to address our concerns,” a Target spokesperson said in a statement to MarketWatch.

This isn't fake news. The original report was quoting police and showing all the extreme shoplifting prevention at that location. They used a second-hand quote from the Target manager, which is acceptable in every other context. A senior corporate spokesperson denied it was closing right now, allowing other news outlets to take victory laps like they've debunked some crackpot theory. It's still quite possible this Target will close in a few months and for everyone to be correct. Welcome to news reporting.

Also the Metreon location has curtailed their hours, closing at 6pm, as the article said. I remember its grand opening—hours were until at least 8pm, maybe 9.

I haven’t seen reports of CVS closing a store in SF from 2020-2021. Where are you seeing a disproportionate share in SF?

Walgreens also closed ~70 stores in NYC, a similar % as the SF closures.

I don’t think anyone is defending shoplifting, or crime, but I think the story deserves some scrutiny. Shoplifting did spike in 2020, but it also seems possible that Walgreens is covering a strategic shift with the shoplifting story.

https://www.sfgate.com/local-donotuse/article/CVS-closed-san...

All retailers are making exactly the same accusations of sky-rocketing theft. ...and with so many cases literally caught on film - who are the deniers? Why deny proven facts? Is politics that important to you?

The article you sent is from 2019, for 2 CVS stores. This doesn’t match your claim about CVS and other retailers disproportionately closing stores in SF.

A large number of stores were permanently closed in NYC and other urban areas as well, and brick and mortar retail has been struggling for years.

> Is politics that important to you?

This is a weird response I see on HN a lot lately.

The article featured here, and the data, suggest there is more to what’s going on than “shoplifting is killing Walgreens.”

It’s not about politics, it’s about fully understanding the situation, and avoiding sensationalist responses to crime.

Why are you narrowly only willing to look at theft related store closures from 2020-2021, and not 2019?

While things in SF have gotten worse, the article makes it clear that theft was a key reason these CVSs closed in SF.

All the retailers have issued statements about rampant theft in SF. You keep comparing it to NYC store closures, but the no one is posting videos of mass brazzen robberies in NYC. No retailer is making press releases about rampant theft in NYC. NYC stores don't have reduced hours, increased goods behind locked panels, nor guards at the door.

The evidence is all there. Denial of what's going on in SF is bizarre.

> the article makes it clear that theft was a key reason these CVSs closed in SF.

The article does not make this clear, it cites some Yelp reviews, but doesn’t mention that it was part of a nationwide plan to close 46 underperforming stores nationwide. CVS also does not cite shoplifting in the article, and the article also mentions that there was a CVS not too far from the one that closed.

If you Google, you can absolutely find shoplifting stories about NYC. I’ve seen anti-theft measures in drugstores of several major cities, even before 2019. I guess it’s worth asking why the SF ones get a huge amount of press and not the NYC ones. Maybe it’s politics.

> The evidence is all there. Denial of what's going on in SF is bizarre

I’m not denying the videos or the closing of the Walgreens stores, but I’m a bit skeptical about the narrative being built around these points. Here is a counter viewpoint with some evidence:

http://www.cjcj.org/news/13165

Don't you think it's a little biased to cite a blog who's stated intent is to reduce the number of incarcerated people?

This is not a trustworthy source on this subject. It's odd you trust it more than the New York Times on this subject. This isn't some GOP fake news conspiracy.

Also, it states that reports of theft are down. I mean obviously. If stores are shutting down and police cannot even arrest thieves then it follows that the stores are not even bothering to report shoplifting any longer.

...and the data that's more relevant is that these chains are reporting that nearly HALF of their total losses in all of California, come from San Francisco.

Fine, here are the same stats, sourced from the DOJ and SFPD is in a newspaper. You can also check the CJCJ sources and data as well:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Is-shoplifting-ris...

Here's one with data on the stores that Walgreens closed:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/Is-shoplifting-forcin...

> Also, it states that reports of theft are down. I mean obviously. If stores are shutting down and police cannot even arrest thieves then it follows that the stores are not even bothering to report shoplifting any longer.

Don't know what to say to this, other than it's an unfalsifiable claim and will always point the way you want -- Crime is always too high, because any decline is the result of non reporting. If the vast majority of the shoplifting losses are by professional organized criminal gangs, I'm surprised that the chains wouldn't report them

> ...and the data that's more relevant is that these chains are reporting that nearly HALF of their total losses in all of California, come from San Francisco.

Where did you hear this?. The only stat I can find close to this is from CVS, which says 26% of incidents (42% of $ value) of their losses from shoplifting _in the Bay Area_ come from San Francisco.

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