Comment by ilamont | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ilamont | Hacker News Reader

I always thought this was an interesting example of Apple extremists being provoked by a hoax:

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mac/news/2004/02/62157

The hoaxer, identified only as "Andy," claimed he received a dual-processor G5 for Christmas. But preferring a Windows PC, he swapped out the insides of the $3,000 machine for the guts of a cheapo PC. The post included several digital photographs to prove the outrageous claim.

It generated insults from all over the world, and even threats of violence.

bediger also mentioned the possible presence of "reverse shills" being used to pollute the Linux camp. I believe there may be some truth to that -- it's one way to convince on-the-fence tech execs that Linux/Open Source supporters are extremists.

I also believe there's a parallel in politics: Many political campaigns, when they take the fight into online forums, blogs, and newspaper comment threads, attempt to make the other side seem as offensive and idiotic as possible. Extremist commenters repel moderates who might otherwise be aligned with the cause, and/or attract other extremists. I don't have proof of this (almost all such comments are anonymous) other than the staggering incidence of idiocy I see on comment threads when politicians are discussed.

> Extremist commenters repel moderates who might otherwise be aligned with the cause, and/or attract other extremists.

I seem to recall reading something a while back that suggested the reverse is often true - that moderates will back the extremists for "fighting the good fight".

Even the moderates will tend to have some topics that they strongly support/criticise, and applaud that someone is doing it, especially in the case where the opinion is a minority view. The argument also suggested that extremists tend to generate the most media coverage of a topic - A terrorist bombing is going to generate a huge amount of front-page news compared to, say, some reasonable people meeting and making reasonable compromises. That will then raise awareness of the topic &c. Granted, the publicity will be overwhelming negative, but some people still subscribe to the "any publicity is good" theory.

I can't seem to find the original reference, but I'll edit it in or post a reply if I do find it.

"bediger also mentioned the possible presence of "reverse shills" being used to pollute the Linux camp."

Interestingly I've never seen this proven in any way, although I suppose it's possible. But extremists in FOSS are widespread enough that I doubt it's some evil secret plot by Microsoft (or whomever) to make the community look bad.

You never know, Stallman could be the greatest reverse-shill ever planted.

Wow, this is horrifying:

"I hope your PC blows up and leaves your miserable face disfigured forever," read one. "You will surely burn in hell for an eternity for this one."

I suppose that it could be a serious comment, but I really sturggle to parse it as anything other than a joke.

As an extreme example some believe that the Westboro Baptist Church is a group of these "reverse shills". I don't think I believe that myself though.

If it was true, it would be incredible dedication. Lots of people want them dead. To put your life (and your kids' lives!) on the line like that for either cause (legitimate bigotry or reverse shill) is insane regardless

Hm, this subthread seems pretty afar off topic, but I'll sincerely say that if there is a God and He is Just, then it makes sense that he "Hates America" like they say. The US has become such an imperialist corporate police state. This coming from a reformed former rah rah america guy. So... Westboro has a point to some of their stuff. As far as protesting soldier funerals, why not? Soldiers spreading american imperialism, murdering children, torturing innocent people. Sure, if God exists and is fair, he hates that stuff and knowing those guys are burning in hell could be a lot of comfort to some.

I should state I'm not trolling, but I realize I'll probably get downvoted to hell for this since there is probably no one else in the US that will stand up and say they have something of a point, and also that free speech includes telling bereaved soldier parents their lost child is burning in hell, even though that is a pretty shocking thing to do and it would make more sense to keep that belief to yourself. But they don't. They advertise their politically incorrect beliefs to the world. Takes a lot of balls and a bit of craziness. I certainly wouldn't do it. It took me 10 years to get to the point where I would dare to post this one note which I'll probably chicken out and delete in a bit.

But what if everyone said what they really thought about things? Probably there would be utter chaos. I was reading today that a majority of britons believe the police should have used live ammunition to massacre the "rioters" (protesters). That opinion I find FAR more psychotic and offensive than what the nuts at Westboro are preaching. I find the advocacy of using live rounds to massacre protesting civilians in the UK to be utterly depraved and insane. That there is a majority that supports this means the world has gone insane and whatever the democratic majority wants or thinks no longer matters because they are as evil and crazy as the lunatics in Germany that elected the Fuhrer and then encouraged him to get rid of undesirables. It wasn't just the Fuhrer's plan all by himself, it was what the evil people wanted. That level of public evil and madness is what I see in Europe and the US today in the general public. A bunch of crazy dangerous people. God hates them? I sure hope so.

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