I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream | Hacker News Reader

I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream

filfre.net

203 pointsaarestad46 comments

Great game, although it does suffer from some of the same obtuse puzzle solutions that plagued other adventure games of the time. I went through it with a guide, and I still have no idea why I did some of the things in the order that I did in order to get the "best" ending.

Anyone who buys the game on Steam or GOG will get the short story as a downloadable bonus, so that's pretty cool.

EDIT: This passage suggests that Harlan's original script for the famous Star Trek episode is somehow lost to the annals of history:

> As good as the produced version of the episode is, Ellison insisted until his death that the undoctored script he first submitted was far, far better — and it must be acknowledged that at least some of the people who worked on Star Trek agreed with him. In a contemporaneous memo, producer Bob Justman lamented that, following several rounds of editing and rewriting, “there is hardly anything left of the beauty and mystery that was inherent in the screenplay as Harlan originally wrote it.”

It's not. It has long been published and available for people to read:

https://www.amazon.com/Harlan-Ellisons-City-Edge-Forever/dp/...

It was even adapted into a graphic novel that followed the original screenplay:

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-City-Edge-Forever/dp/163140...

Having read both, and watched the episode, I can confidently say that the original script was miles better than what we got.

Yes, I liked the story and it's a trope by now. But never got along with the game.

Yes the original was better. But the one we got was easier/cheaper to film and his had many special effects shots which would have put them over time budget as well. Remember at the time ST was not the money machine it is now and was one of the more costly shows on air, and they tried to turn them around in about 2-3 weeks (when at the time the average was less than 1-4 days for most shows). Money was one of the reasons we saw a good amount of vasquez rocks in the show. It is in the movie zone and the pay was cheaper.

Before Star Trek Ellison also did two episodes of The Outer Limits; actually, IIRC this is how he ended up writing for Star Trek, because Bob Justman worked with him before on The Outer Limits. In one of them a soldier accidentally travels back in time to the then-present day (aptly named "Soldier").

In the first draft script Ellison wrote the time-travel scene had the soldier "flying through time" with spaceships and dinosaurs and what-have-you. They explained it was a great script but far too expensive to film due to all the required special effects, and told him to rewrite it to be cheaper. "Okay!", and so he went away to rewrite it. He came back and ... time-travel scene was still there! They again explained that filming the time-travel scene alone would cost several episodes worth of budget, and was simply an impossibility. He did not seem to understand; in his mind that scene was simply essential.

Needless to say, that episode was also not shot the way Ellison wrote it.

(This episode, together with the Demon with a Glass Hand episode he did for The Outer Limits, were allegedly plagiarized by James Cameron in the Terminator film – I have never seen any strong resemblances myself beyond some very superficial details; I guess the studio settled to avoid trouble, but it just seemed like Ellison being his difficult self more than anything else. He was a funny man, but also a difficult one with something of a vicious mean streak at times.)

There's a somewhat hilarious audiobook about this by Ellison (titled the same as the episode, I believe), which is mostly a well produced rant burying Roddenberry's versions of events (your justifications included) in 37 tons of molten lead and firing them into the heart of a nearby dying star.

When I started listening, I didn't know what it was and kept wondering when the story would start. By something like 30-40 minutes in, I was laughing so hard I decided I didn't even care if I ever heard the script. It's a masterpiece of pettiness only Harlan could have crafted.

"In pre-release publicity for I have No Mouth, and I Must Scream, Ellison said that it would be a game "you cannot possibly win". Though the gaming media found that the finished game backed away from this controversial promise,[5] and Sears said that he had convinced Ellison that having a game with only negative endings was a bad idea,[2] "

I wonder if the arcane method to get the good ending was a compromise on this point.

Years later, Yoko Taro did it anyway and sold millions of copies.

Oh come on now, it was at least somewhat bittersweet and hopeful in the end.

"Wish for them to survive?"

"Do you have any interest in helping the weak?"

"Do you still wish to rescue someone - a total stranger - in spite of this?"

At which point the entirety of humanity is dead, the project to ostensibly reseed it is destroyed, any emergent alternative lifeforms have been eliminated (by you), and then the game literally deletes your save file.

It's closure, I guess, but it's no happy ending

This is an amazing game and I didn't know the whole story behind it, although the author did provide the voice for the computer AM which is pretty creepy.

The game is ridiculously progressive for its time and has a female African American software developer addressing trauma/assault.

I saw the show Maniac on Netflix recently and wondered if they were inspired by this game. The game references psychology in the vignettes and although it's much, much darker than what happens in the show Maniac (and not the intention of AM to help the people in the simulation) the outcome is similar - the people in the vignettes overcome some of the psychological trauma that held them back.

Ellen seems to have gotten the most growth from the original short story. And I was very happy to see that, because the original had a couple of cringe-worthy passages about her. Maybe they weren't as eyebrow-raising in 1967, but I definitely winced a few times on re-reading it a few years ago.

> Ellen seems to have gotten the most growth from the original short story. And I was very happy to see that, because the original had a couple of cringe-worthy passages about her. Maybe they weren't as eyebrow-raising in 1967, but I definitely winced a few times on re-reading it a few years ago.

Like what? I don't really remember anything cringe-worthy in the story.

Her skin color is repeatedly fetishized--which, okay, maybe this is the sex-hungry narrator's bent.

The cringe-worthy part involves the character of Benny, who AM mutated into a primate creature with enlarged sexual organs. The narrator takes great pains to point out that Ellen obligingly has sex with all of the crew (ehh....), but she really likes having sex with Benny.

Again, I understand this is unreliable narrator's jealousy probably seeping in, but a book written today might be a little more conscious about the optics of the black female character having sex with a Simian/human hybrid.

EDIT: Since I happened to have the ebook on my laptop, here's the passage in question:

> It was too late. None of us wanted to be near him when whatever was going to happen, happened. And besides, we all saw through her concern. When AM had altered Benny, during the machine’s utterly irrational, hysterical phase, it was not merely Benny’s face the computer had made like a giant ape’s. He was big in the privates, she loved that! She serviced us, as a matter of course, but she loved it from him. Oh Ellen, pedestal Ellen, pristine-pure Ellen, oh Ellen the clean! Scum filth.

> The narrator takes great pains to point out that Ellen obligingly has sex with all of the crew (ehh....), but she really likes having sex with Benny.

I don't see anything cringe worthy about that - it's not unusual for women to, uh, prefer bigger organs.

> but a book written today might be a little more conscious about the optics of the black female character having sex with a Simian/human hybrid.

I don't understand this bit either - what does the character being black have to do with it? Once again, in SciFi it's not unusual for humans to have relations with aliens, mutants, etc. Are black people not allowed do so?

> I don't see anything cringe worthy about that - it's not unusual for women to, uh, prefer bigger organs.

Sorry to break it to you, it is unusual

>> > I don't see anything cringe worthy about that - it's not unusual for women to, uh, prefer bigger organs.

> Sorry to break it to you, it is unusual

In a work of dystopian fiction it's very far away from "cringe worthy", as IRL there are already some women who have that preference.

Calling it cringe worthy is somewhat puritanical ...

Hate to break it to you bud if you heard that from a woman they were probably just trying to stoke your ego, no one has a "preference" for getting a bruised cervix

> Hate to break it to you bud if you heard that from a woman they were probably just trying to stoke your ego, no one has a "preference" for getting a bruised cervix

People have preferences for all sorts of pain and discomfort during sex. It's simply puritanical to suggest that a certain subset of the population must not have a certain sexual preference.

And, in view of the story we are discussing, the woman in question was given that preference due to physiological manipulations made by AM; there is nothing I see cringe-worthy about the situation, unless you are off the opinion that women must not like a particular type of sexual interaction, because it makes you uncomfortable.

No, it's only ok for Kirk to do it.

Did Kirk have relations with non humanoids? The Gorn doesn't count :)

Does Benny (I think his name was) in the story not count as humanoid? He's a transformed human, but clearly still remains self-aware, and is considered human by his friends.

Yeah, I think he went much further with the whole ape thing in the short story which had the other problematic issues as well. He was kind of just crippled in the game which made sense as a lot of his self image was based on his physical strength as an army officer.

Isn't the context that the AI altered Ellen's brain to make her particularly sex-crazed as a punishment? Since previously, she had been rather prudish? Not really fair to leave that out.

Authors can't imagine from what bent perspective a future reader will read their works ... to me (non-US) being focused on those issues looks much less progressive than the original.

> I definitely winced a few times on re-reading it a few years ago.

You expected the insane AI bent on torturing the last five humans forever, to be more respectful of present-day sensibilities?

Oh yeah, the short story was not good in that regard at all. The game was such an upgrade to the story.

Some thoughts, stream-of-consciousness-like.

>My first encounter with this game was a text Let's Play and the Wikipedia article, as posted on reddit in October 2008. Reading through both caused my first existential crisis in adulthood and a minor nervous breakdown. The game gets a lot of praise, but it's heavy. Very heavy. Use caution.

>Though released quite some time after, I find the parallels with Final Fantasy VI fascinating. Yes, that Final Fantasy VI. Both games feature a ragtag troupe of characters - some of whom deal with issues of trauma and identity over the course of the narrative - who traverse a post-apocalyptic world, resisting the machinations of an omnipotent, insane being that itself draws its abilities from a triad of powerful entities. It's hard to tell if FFVI was influenced by IHNM, but if not, then it's interesting to note the parallel evolution of themes, and the modes of conveying them, in wildly different properties. And if by some chance it is so, then it's not a stretch to say that the renaissance of narrative-based games heralded by the following entry in the FF series has its roots in Harlan Ellison's writings and IHNM. In that case, it didn't just slip into obscurity; its DNA is in every modern game (that isn't descended from Metal Gear Solid) that's trying to tell a complex story in a direct and linear manner.

This game was far too ultra violent and made me sick to my stomach, as an adult playing through it. Massive wtf moments.

If I recall it was more tame than the story itself.

I guess I should have phrased myself better. Atrocities, not violence. Then additionally the rape stuff. Geez that is just not entertainment.

In case you were wondering, yep, it is as weird and dark as it sounds, see for yourself: [1]

1. https://youtu.be/EQ5wjScT_Ac?list=PL5LR9n9lLLbhTqQLHzNroFN_a...

Harlan Ellison is most famous as a sci-fi writer but also produced pointed social/cultural commentary. I am thinking "The Glass Teat"[0] in particular, which was targeted by the Nixon administration and effectively banned.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Teat

This isn't terribly surprising when you realise that all science fiction is social/cultural commentary.

Such an odd career path for David Sears, to go from this to being the creative director behind SOCOM and SOCOM II - two wonderful games whose online community I miss dearly, but games Ellison would no doubt include in his categorization of "arcade bang-bang games that turn kids into pistol-packing papas and mamas".

Didn't see this in the article or the comments, but it's available on Android as well on the play store[1] and iOS[2].

Love the game and the short story but had no idea about the screenplay until today!

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dotemu.ihn...

[2] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/i-have-no-mouth-and-i-must-scr...

Like the comment in the article never heard of him. Do like the Star Trek original story though. Not sure I like this silly story whatever the article try to present. If the earth has only 5 … can it last or there is a way the machine can produce more otherwise it can’t last.

Anyway the real twist is I think that end with hello kitty and that will be more famous no mouth and have to pretend to entertain human. Not one Ai.

There's a modern port of the DOS game on Steam, I'd highly recommend https://store.steampowered.com/app/245390/I_Have_No_Mouth_an...

Also available on GOG

https://www.gog.com/game/i_have_no_mouth_and_i_must_scream

Also on GOG[1], if you don't care much for DRM

[1]https://www.gog.com/game/i_have_no_mouth_and_i_must_scream

Oh man this game was so cool and interesting, I played this with my girlfriend 4 years ago and we both got super into it. Definitely had to Google some of the solutions to the puzzles but wow it’s a cool concept. After we finished it we listened to the audiobook together which was also fantastic.

I've yet to play it, intend to eventually but also, my first job out of school I worked with the lead artist on this project, one of my favorite most pleasant (and talented) people I have ever known.

The original short story is somewhat horrifying. I can't comment on the game itself as I've only ever started it, never actually finished it.

Wha...what makes you say that?

> “HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.”

somewhat?

This game blew my freaking mind in high school. Never seen anything like it since.

I also liked Sanitarium, similarly an old point-and-click gem.

https://www.gog.com/game/sanitarium

Reply on news.ycombinator.com