Tesla's German plant hits snag as public consultation repeated
reuters.com
reuters.com
Germany somehow manages to have the reputation that there isn't "low level corruption", though there is plenty of that to go around.
Out of curiosity, what are your other points of comparison?
I give it a 50/50 that they'll have to pull out of Germany, losing all the money they put in so far.
German automakers are well known for their lobbying
But there is a high likelihood that they will be getting this one as well - at least according to the latest information I could find...
I mean, let's compare this to the rather celebrated South Korean court decision to force Google/Apple into giving up control over in-app payments: Great for the customers and for competition and for developers, but it's also no accident it happened in a country where Samsung has every business interest in the outcome.
The fact that you can't get over yourself for two seconds to comprehend this kind of shows you have no clue what you're even talking about.
Change in the way the German government operates? I hope not, but I also doubt it.
As I understand they'll mostly be filled by the polish workforce, they didn't built it so close to the border for no reason.
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/en/building-delays-at-tesla-...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market#%22Four...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market#Free_mo...
Building a plant on the US-Mexico border will not be seen as kindly if it's perceived that they are not using US labor.
Or maybe the math somehow works out, but I doubt it.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/digpub/eumove/bloc-2c.ht...
> In 2019, the largest number of cross-border workers among the Member States were for those living in Poland and working in Germany (122 000 people)
These projects usually take many years and Tesla tried to basically do it in one and is annoyed that it is stretching out to two.
In the big picture 2-3 years to get a new large auto factory online is pretty normal. There are definitely some parallels to SpaceX in Boca Chica, TX. They both are hitting regulatory delays, but stepping back it seems they are the result of intentionally trying to "move fast and break things" with their development timelines.
Edit: Citation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bdkcoiFaN0
They're hoping to add a 250MW power plant which would be a major change but that would be part of a different environmental assessment.
They raised a howl because the plans say they will start on a power plant, whose impact is considered -- but 'oh my goodness, where will the gas come from? A well? Trucks? Oh my!'
Well -- that literally may not be known yet, as is when and whether they'd get close to running it at anything like capacity.
And that's not a problem; Texas has power plant regulators, and pipelines have their own paperwork and process.
The FAA regulating this is a bit funny anyway. :) Eventually that'll change, but right now they're doing a good job handling these weird corners of their responsibility with grace.
It's possible the problem isn't so much that regulators are trying to play dirty against Musk but so inept at trying to cut corners to win this "prestige project" that they actually cause overhead by being caught and having to do things again properly.
I'd say generally speaking Tesla's perception in Germany is positive and politicians are more inclined to bend rules in Tesla's favors rather than against. There are just limitations to what you can get away with.
That said, the major angel for the Tesla project is the local state government of Brandenburg, which is led by the SPD, the party that emerged strongest in the national election. The CDU is also in Brandenburg's gov coalition, but I don't think Laschet's (national CDU candidate) Musk election campaign media stunt had much relation to anything.
We also have a proud history of industrial corruption in Germany (we call it "Klüngel" because that sounds nicer), especially when it comes to public construction projects.
I find it a lot more likely that the failures are the result of a mix of public officials being overly hasty in trying to pave the road (so to speak) and making promises they couldn't deliver on, than that this is entirely down to traditional car manufacturers using their political leverage against Tesla. Especially given the location of the factory.
> Authorities decided to repeat the process after
> environmental groups disputed in a separate case
It's environmental NGOs who cause this trouble for Tesla.
I don't have any particular opinion on whether this is good or bad at the moment, but it's certainly fascinating to follow ...
You are no doubt referring to the Brandenburg state premier who entered into totally democratic secret negotiations with Tesla and then presented the imminent construction of the factory as fait accompli to his surprised electorate?
[1] https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/372-000-liter-pro-stu...
Water use is a bit of a misnomer though. It's not like agriculture where the water gets "fed" to plants and mostly evaporates.
Tesla plans to recycle/reuse most of the water at the Giga Berlin plant: https://insideevs.com/news/526187/tesla-minimizes-water-use-...
And yes, the positive impact of electric cars even considering all raw materials and water is unequivocal.
If we want to fight climate change and reduce emissions, we'd better not switch from fossil fuel SUVs to luxury EVs, but rather turn to alternatives like living more locally, and using trains a lot more. But that step is not what is being promoted, surprise, and it's also not a step that many people are ready to do. They fiercely identify with their vehicles and can become quite aggressive whenever one threatens to make owning a car more expensive. At least, should climate change 'happen one day' (/s), they'll have a car to drive somewhere else (again, /s).
If Vegas did have a subway, it wouldn't have enough population to run every few minutes, so you'd have to wait a long time for the train. With the small cars you don't have to wait, and you get the equivalent of an express train every time.
But the big advantage is the cost -- subways cost hundreds of millions per mile.
Meanwhile, SpaceX is going to build a 250MW gas power station in Boca Chica to be run 24/7…
[0] Compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM and studies referred to in the description.
The other big factor is the source of the electricity used to power the car. But that's a chicken and egg problem. To decarbonize transporation you need to both electrify the car and decarbonize the electricity. In other words both steps are necessary -- doing only one of the two is a huge step towards both steps getting done, but it doesn't show in the final numbers until both steps are done. It takes about 20 years to turn over the car inventory and even longer to turn over power plants, so we need to start aggressively doing both now.
So except for maybe the very upper end of your range I don't see how that's evidence against electric cars reducing CO2 emissions.
1: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehi...
2: https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replac...
Regarding emissions:
> SpaceX estimates that it would produce 47,522 metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent per year once the entire Starship base kicks into high gear. The power plant alone will contribute 9,858 metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions per year. However, as per the tabulation by ESG Hound, the emissions from this power plant are likely to exceed 1 million tons of CO2 equivalent per year.
[0] https://wccftech.com/as-spacex-gears-up-to-build-natural-gas...
Its not great, but making humans an interplanetary species is more important, especially considering that we are already de-carbonizing cars, partly thanks due to Tesla.
The German NGOs are mostly being unreasonable. What they defend is a not an organic forrest, but basically an artificial wood factory with hardly any environmental value. Water consumption is apparently another issue, but its not like you use it and then its gone forever - its being cleaned.
Also "Gigafactory Berlin" is only a slight stretch of the truth and has a much nicer ring to it than "Gigafactory Ingolstadt". Being big and flashy is important to Tesla (hence "Gigafactory", not "factory"), and Berlin is just much more recognizable than the alternatives.
I'm confused by your statement. That cheap labor you're referring to is cheap while it's in Poland, but being in Germany, you're now under German contractual union agreements regardless of your nationality, so labor no longer cheap and you're also under German labor law, not Polish. So what gives? Or do you thing German worker's rights don't apply to workers from Poland?
This practice actually became somewhat infamous during the pandemic when an outbreak in a meat factory shined light on Eastern European workers' working and living conditions. The company went on to hire thousands of workers directly in an attempt to salvage some of its reputation but previously had outsourced the work to a network of such staffing companies it claimed to have no insight into while actually having funded (and likely owned) several of them.
- During the West/East divide, West Germany was financially kept alive through major subsidy from the outside, which created political and organizational structures not designed for self-sufficiency. After the unification those subsidies from the national state were all but halted, plunging the city into debt
- A ruthless debt management approach has kept the city from spending ever since, which has resulted in a lot of administrative functions stagnating or slowly deteriorating by e.g. not hiring
Things are improving now, slowly, due to the Capital City effect and the startup boom, but it's important that Berlin is special within in Germany in many ways. In most European countries, if you make a GDP-per-person stat, it falls considerably if you remove the capital city from the equation (say almost 20% in France). Germany is perhaps the only industrial country in the world where it goes up instead.
Note: The Tesla factory, despite being called "Giga Berlin" by Tesla, is being built in the state of Brandenburg, which is not the state of Berlin. Brandenburg has a different complex situation.