Exercises for a programmer sitting by the PC all day | Hacker News Reader

Exercises for a programmer sitting by the PC all day

fitness.stackexchange.com

113 pointsNARKOZ42 comments

There is hardly any knowledge of human physiology behind most of the answers, just like the question was "what exercises do you like" and not "exercises for someone sitting by the PC all day". Sitting at a desk for 8+ hours tends to cause various posture problems through shortening and chronic contraction of some muscle groups (e.g. hip flexors) and weakening of others (e. g. glutes). Especially cycling strikes me as a bizarre recommendation, I would say 2 hours of cycling has the same effect on posture as 8 additional hours of sitting at the desk. The recommendation to do bench presses is a great way to further round ones already rounded (from all the sitting at the keyboard) shoulders. Swimming is great, but not everyone has warm weather all year long or likes swimming pools. For someone looking for gym exercises for people with desk-bound jobs I would recommend this more:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...

Regarding flexibility and the problems of the office chair, don't forget the third-world squat![1]

Also, you don't have to be sitting to cycle—I assume this is why you mention that two hours of cycling is akin to eight hours of sitting at the office chair?

[1] http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_trai...

Even if you don't sit, you still have to be bent over to some degree, both in the hips and in the shoulders (to reach out for the handlebar), which is a position physiologically similar to sitting in front of a computer (sitting in a chair and reaching out for the keyboard). Also, the actual activity of cycling tends to stress the hip flexors, which are often already chronically contracted due to prolonged sitting and doesn't activate glutes that much (unless you use those cycling shoes which make the upward movement of the feet contribute to the bicycle movement as well). This is exactly the opposite of the pattern of activity that people with sedentary lifestyles need. This imbalance of muscular tension that I'm talking about results in very posture problems, like the anterior pelvic tilt - http://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/anterior-pel...

You're obviously well educated on the subject. I agree with what you're saying. That's why my recommendation above was to do Bootstrapping Squats (at first), bench, deadlifts and chins -- just the basics. You especially want to strengthen the Posterior Chain (hamstrings, glutes, lower back) and Bootstrapper Squats are a simple way to get started.

There's a great book called Starting Strength that gives a basic starting program.

Some of the exercises in the links you give are okay. Front squats are an especially advanced exercise--a lot harder than they look. And bench presses won't give you rounded shoulders.

I'd recommend Bootstrapper Squats (google it) or regular barbell squats, bench press, shoulder press, deadlifts and chins.

Riding a bike is an excellent warmup for your knees prior to doing any kind of leg work.

And bench presses won't give you rounded shoulders.

Healthy shoulders are a result of a balance between the static tension of the upper back muscles and the chest muscles. If you already have rounded shoulders, it means that the chest muscles are too strong and too contracted, while the upper back muscles too weak. That's why a personal trainer or a doctor will prescribe regular _stretching_ of the chest muscles as part of a treatment for this condition. If you're healthy, then bench pressing won't give you rounded shoulders, provided that you balance the training appropriately with upper back exercises. But the point is that people with sedentary lifestyles tend to have their chest muscles already chronically contracted from the posture they keep for most of the day, so they should first work on stretching the chest muscles and strengthening the upper back. When their posture is balanced again, they can workout normally, balancing bench pressing with rowing exercises.

I've got to disagree with a bunch of this.

Front squats are a little tricky (balance and flexibility in both hips and arms/wrists matter), but as with any movement, starting light (prop or unloaded bar) isn't going to hurt anyone (well, anyone who's not already hurt or missing body parts).

I just looked up Boostrap Squats. Not sold, but Dan John is a solid guy.

Cycling's OK for lower body, but I'd pick erging (indoor rowing) for a better whole-body warm-up.

Huge fan of the basic Rippetoe movements: squats, deads, bench, press (a/k/a shoulder press), chins, rows, and power cleans.

So why don't you go post a better answer?

I'm one of the people that suggested cycling there.

A few points:

* Post a better answer. If others agree it's better it'll get upvoted and go higher on the page.

* The question itself has essentially no details. Current problems? Things they've tried? What they might like? What kind of chair they sit in. No hints at all.

* You're prematurely optimizing. Many programmers and other computer professionals sit inside at a desk all day and get no exercise. Almost anything at all that gets them moving is an improvement. The top answer is pretty much "get outside and do any exercise" with suggestions for some of the more accessible choices. Most of those are more likely than getting somebody to go to a gym or doing more complicated specific exercises. Once they start doing any exercise at all you can worry about the specifics of which and how much, etc.

* Part of the suggestion was commuting by bicycle, so replacing time sitting in a car or on a bus with time riding a bicycle

* Cycling with good posture uses your glutes and increases (or at least requires) hip flexor and hamstring flexibility. Uses much of the core muscles in the back that many programmers have problems with.

The stationary bikes pictured in one of your links don't look like they allow a proper cycling posture at all. They're set up for people that don't know how to ride a bike right so that they don't put too much weight on their hands. You might be right about 2 hours pedaling away on one of those.

Definitely very anecdotal, but I work in an office with a decent percentage of bicycle commuters. The cyclists aren't the ones that keep having back problems. (it's the ones that don't exercise at all, or don't stick with exercise)

You're prematurely optimizing.

Someone asked for activities good for computer people. You didn't answer "any activity", but "cycling". Now when I say cycling is actually bad for many computer people, you say I'm prematurely optimizing? Because I try to answer the actual question meaningfully?

Many programmers and other computer professionals sit inside at a desk all day and get no exercise. Almost anything at all that gets them moving is an improvement.

It's not. If you do an activity with a certain pattern of impact on the body for 8+ hours a day, doing another activity with the same pattern for additional 2 hours a day yet with increased intensity has the potential to cause serious health problems and discourage people from activity in general. If you're about to choose a sport and do not so much care about what will it be, why not make a choice that will be the most beneficial health-wise? I think that's was the whole point of the question asked.

Cycling with good posture uses your glutes and increases (or at least requires) hip flexor and hamstring flexibility.

I don't know why do you mention flexibility here, the posture problems come not from flexibility issues but from the muscle tone of opposing muscle groups. It is also simply not true what you are saying, just think about the main function of the hip flexors - pulling the knee up, and the function of the glutes - rotating the pelvis; then think which of those two actions is more common in cycling and to which degree. The hip flexors get contracted all the time and thus shortened, not flexed.

Uses much of the core muscles in the back that many programmers have problems with.

It's exactly the same as with hip flexors, the bend-over posture tends to stress the erector spinae that is already very tight and contracted from all the sitting, and does nothing to work out the abdominals which are too weak.

Post a better answer. If others agree it's better it'll get upvoted and go higher on the page.

I do not feel an expert on the topic, I am not a member of the fitness stackexchange community, and this is a four month old post. If I was to answer the question, I would recommend classic swimming, because it is beneficial to the posture even if your technique isn't perfect. There are other good choices, but they require more guidance. Yoga is great, because it actually teaches you to locate and be aware of the various tensions in your body accumulated during the day and helps relax those. Wisely selected exercises in the gym or callisthenics are good as well, but a lot of people have those posture problems and muscular imbalances, and when working out on their own they might not have enough knowledge to address them by an appropriate workout on their own (apart from the fact that most people don't know how to squat or deadlift in a way that is not detrimental to health in the long run). That's why in this case hiring a good personal trainer might be a good investment if you have the money and are serious about improving your health.

What works (and has worked for at least a year) for me is taking 30 minutes every morning to exercise. The regime used to be very simple, it's gotten more complex as time went on.

Right now I'm at 110 pushups, 130 situps, 50 side situps, 3min abdominal bridge and 10 minutes of jumprope or shadow boxing.

I used to also do two hours of boxing at a gym three times a week and that was really the best thing ever until it got too expensive.

But the best effect of doing this every day isn't even physical. It's the knowledge that no matter how sucky a day turns out to be, I have done something to better myself.

    It's the knowledge that no matter how sucky a
    day turns out to be, I have done something to
    better myself.

This, a hundred times. Especially if you do this first thing in the morning; keep this up on regular basis and you can rest assured that you're part of a very small elite. Of course, I provide no evidence to back up my assertion; part and parcel with being an elitist.

This will strike most of you as weird, but I have a door-frame pull-up bar, gymnastic rings, a kettlebell, a jump rope and paralleletes for my office at work. I mostly use them on weekends or after normal office hours so it won't distract other people. Exactly what I do varies but often I'll do something like submaximal sets (e.g. 15 pull-ups followed by 15 ring dips) on the hour, every hour, throughout the day. It's a good way to build strength endurance, and it really helps my body reset and relax so I can concentrate more on thinking.

"Any exercise" is definitely better than nothing at all, but I'd do something that addresses your specific issues. For example, I tend to get really tense in my shoulders and upper back when I'm programming, and doing push-ups to failure is a great way of releasing the tension. Back when I was completely out of shape, I managed to build up to 40 push-ups per set in a month of just doing them daily to release tension. I started at 10 and just added one more rep per set every day. It was a nice bonus.

Not weird; awesome. I have a set of gymnastic rings in my bag. I hit the park most mornings for a workout. I also do gymnastic holds at work (L-sit, planche, etc.) I find headstands are great way to remove tension in the upper back. A pull bar would be sweet.

Yeah, I obviously dig it, but not everyone is on our wave length.

Here's one reason having a random assortment of equipment at the office is useful. Loop a 53 pound kettlebell through a gymnastic ring strap and you have yourself a makeshift device for weighted chin-ups: http://instagr.am/p/KkfcV/

The pull-up bar is pure gold by itself. It's unobtrusive (I have the door-frame kind) and extremely easy to use.

"Any exercise" gets my vote. It seems to me that a lot of people - myself included - get wrapped up in the body hack mentality (4-Hour Body?) or in finding the "best" exercises, when the important thing is just to get moving and make it fun.

You know, doing anything can actually hurt you more then it helps. For example "just go outside running" can be really bad to your feet and joints, if you don't wear the right shoes/clothes, do it too much, without warming up. It can also be bad for your heart, if you run too fast. "Any exercise" is really the worst thing possible.

Getting a few blisters is preferable to doing absolutely nothing

Regarding running--if you aren't a runner, yes, trying to go out and run five miles might just do more harm than good. Start slowly--run a block, walk a block, run a block--gradually building up to a mile, then two miles.

Most exercise is going to hurt a bit if you've lived a relatively sedentary life. There is a difference between the pain of "my body isn't used to activity" and the pain of "ZOMG, my heart is going to explode." Pain is just weakness leaving your body.

The body you were born with? You're allowed to use. No really -- you don't need permission from your doctor, your personal trainer, or the Internet before you do so. Really, this bullshit idea that exercise is something exotic and dangerous doesn't help anyone. Exercise is just doing stuff with your body. It's the most natural thing in the world, the thing that every child knows how to do. You don't need special clothes, special shoes, or people's permission to go and do it.

Where did GP bring up permission? It looks to me like there's just a tacit assumption that people prefer to keep their bodies in good condition.

That's true, but I would argue that your body will give clear signals if you're doing something you shouldn't be. Things like sprains, sudden joint pain, and light-headedness have a very clear purpose: to stop you from continuing.

Perhaps I should add "and listen to your body" to my previous comment.

It sounds silly, but I find juggling is a great way to get a bit of exercise in the office. Once you can juggle it's a great way to step away from a problem and do something interesting but mindless for a while. After 10-15 minutes of it your arms will have had a little workout.

Install something like WorkRave for Windows and Linux: http://www.workrave.org/ or TimeOut for Mac OS X: http://www.dejal.com/timeout/ to avoid sitting still for too long.

In my experience, Squats and Deadlifts with a 7' Olympic bar are the best bang for your 'time-bucks'.

I'm also looking at Hindu Squats as the 'do-anywhere'/'rainy day'/'other excuse' general purpose exercise.

Deadlifts are arguably the best thing you can do to your body, however they're also the easiest to get wrong and wreck your spine, so be careful and don't push them - based on 3yrs of personal gym experience and 1 yr of gym retirement due to herniated disc.

What really works for me is using Endomondo.com to track my workouts and using C25K to do my jogging all on my Android phone. I really want to exercise because I need to if I don't want to become ridden with health problems, but motivation is what really made it impossible for me in the past. Now by using both tools on my cellphone I have the motivation to go out and do some exercise because it appeals the geek in me. I want to better myself so that I can look at the graph of my performance and say "wow! I'm getting better!". If I jog 30 minutes each time I jog, I will at least try to beat the distance I have set last time since Endomondo is tracking all the data from my runs. Also, there are a lot of user-made challenges on Endomondo, and it further motivates me (for example : Travel 150km in August, running or cycling).

I think a lot of people have the same problem I had : They know they NEED to work out, they don't really know how or even if they do, they don't have to motivation to go out and do it. The problem is that you don't see instant results when you work out, it takes weeks and months to see the results, but by using all sorts of tracking tools, it motivates you to keep getting better because you will be able to see exactly your progress as you make it.

Workrave is a must have, unfortunately there is no OS X version :( (If someone can show something similar (not AntiRSI), I'd be grateful...)

And, these sitting yoga exercises can really help: http://www.soundtells.com/YogaSitting/Online/index.htm

http://www.rsiguard.com/

They have both Windows and OS X versions.

This exercise has had some clinical support for treating Tennis Elbow. I've also found it helpful for general wrist/hand strengthening:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/phys-ed-an-easy-fix...

Assuming the exercises are going to be done during breaks from the computer, I'd recommend taking a look at Convict Conditioning. Most bodyweight training programs tend to focus on increasing volume, e.g. hundredpushups.com. In contrast, CC increases strength by progressing to more difficult versions of the exercises.

For example, instead of going from 20 to 100 ordinary pushups, you go from pushups -> diamond pushups -> uneven pushups -> one handed pushups. (I gloss over a few steps).

As long as you can ignore the stupid marketing name, CC is actually a very good program to follow. (Of course, lifting actual weights at a gym might help too.)

I actually recommend Judo/BJJ as a form of exercise that lets you apply and sharpen your problem-solving skills, aside from getting you very much in shape. I tried keeping track of stats and stuff, but often give up because it's too much work. The mirror check is far more effective. (Am I fat? yes/no)

I try to do "medium" weight lifting 3 times a week at home. It's good, it helps, but I know it could be better. I've been at a plateau for several months now, though. I sometimes feel bad when I miss a workout now.

Also, I keep on looking for a nice standing desk so I don't have to sit all day.

I'm seeing a fair number of hacker/fitness articles at HN, and there are some long-live well-known instances online (John Walker's "Hacker Diet", Jeremy Zawodny "Diet Tips"). At the same time, there's a lot of naiveté in many of the comments.

A few basic principles might be helpful here.

1: It's really not that complicated. There are a few well-known principles of weight/fat gain and loss, cardiovascular fitness, and strength / hypertrophy (muscle building) training. You'll get a long way with sound nutrition based on good food choices, appropriate caloric intake for your goals, and the right mix of both cardio and strength training modalities (methods). A decent starting point is Liam Rosen's "Beginners Guide": http://www.liamrosen.com/fitness.html Understand concepts such as SAID / training specificity, progressive overload, and caloric balance.

2: Do some research. The Wikipedia "Strength Training" article covers basics of sets, reps, weights, and rest periods for use in strength training. ExRx.net (http://exrx.net) has a lot of solid information and exercise guides. YouTube is a great resource for finding form videos (both good and bad) for exercises. Watching Olympic lifters is inspiring, watching "fail" vids has its own benefits.... Read Michael Pollan, Andrew Weil, and others on diet. I'm not a nutrition nazi -- there are a huge range of native diets, people vary, and lifestyle demands vary, though I'd suggest minimizing the highly processed crap you eat (and a lot of foods you might not consider "highly processed" or "crap" are). But go ahead and read Dean Ornish (low-fat), Atkins (low carb), Vegan (no animal products) classic old-school bodybuilding (BIG FOOD, high protein) sources. Figure out which seems most sensible and appropriate to you. Jack LaLanne got a ton of stuff right in the 1950s. Understand your basic macronutrients (carbs, protein, fats) and how they're used by your body.

3: Read a good book on fitness. One of the best I've seen in the past decade is The New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler and Alwyn Cosgrove. It covers basics of fitness, nutrition, strength training, identifies six foundational exercises (squats, deads, lunges, "push" (presses), "pull" (rows/chins), and twist). Coverage of some of the more technical lifts (squats and deads) is limited, I'd suggest Mark Rippetoe's comprehensive and excellent Starting Strength, for this. I'm a fan too of a good 5x5 program (such as Rippetoe's or as you'll find at http://www.stronglifts.com/). "New Rules" includes a suite of training programs aimed at various goals, which others may like. Body for Life is another good pick. There's considerable scholarly research on strength training as well, Google Scholar is a good place to do some digging (but don't obsess with minutia and details).

4: Realize that this is a long-term, lifetime project. Start light, start short, start easy. But start. Increase the intensity and duration of exercise gradually over time. Too many novices obsess over how much weight they should use, what intensity they should exercise at, or how long they should move. It doesn't matter, and lighter/less is better initially. The 5x5 programs above start light and add 5# per lift per workout (10# for deads). Believe it or not, this is a rapid progression, and though the programs start very easy, they get challenging within a month or two. You'll stick with them for 3-9 months typically, then switch programs according to your goals.

5: Training should be balanced. This doesn't mean doing everything every day. It does mean that you want to include both strength and cardio, that nutrition and exercise matter. That you want to train your front and your back (no, pushups and crunches are not a comprehensive training program, and can lead to or exacerbate imbalances in the long run), your top and your bottom, multiple planes of motion (sagittal tends to dominate, transverse and frontal are neglected), varying rep/set/weight ranges (strength: 1-6, size: 8-12, endurance: 15+), both interval and long-duration cardio. Compound/whole-body and freeweight lifts are generally preferred, though isolation movements have their place, especially in bringing up weak points or for rehab. Bilateral (balanced) and unilateral (one-side at a time) movements. Excesses in any one dimension can be bad (look up the bone-loss issues of competitive cyclists for some really interesting reading).

6: Rest and recovery matter. Training is stimulus. Food is fuel. Recovery is when your body adapts to stimulus with what you feed it. Yes, you really can burn fat while you sleep (and do routinely).

7: Intensity matters. If there's one error I see at gyms, it's working out at too little intensity, usually cardio, for too long. I can point you at a 4-minute workout that will 1) have you trying to get your lungs back inside you and 2) have very significant impacts on your cardio potential as measured by VO2 Max (it's called Tabata intervals, Google it). Yes, this is what that idiotic $14,000 SkyMall exercise thing is based on, but you can do 'em with minimal equipment -- jumprope or burpees -- among other alternatives.

8: Training should be goal-oriented. Define your goals (usually something like "lose fat", "gain muscle", "run faster", "get over this nagging <insert problem here> issue". Find out what training modalities work best for this. If you're working with a trainer ask WHY you're doing a particular exercise or training method.

9: You're not that special. Premature optimization of fitness regimes is the heart of much fitness evil. Start with a basic program. Especially as a novice, you'll make rapid gains -- and as a consequence, you'll think you've found the One True Way. That's complete bullshit -- you've just experienced the Novice Effect (Google that). As you progress toward goals, training specificity will increase -- you're tailoring your program to both your goals and your body's ability to adapt. You'll learn about training cycles (sets/reps, weekly, meso, and macro cycles).

10: There's a ton of fitness information on the InterWebs. Some of it's silly/stupid/biased, some isn't. I've noted a few good starting points. T-Nation (mentioned by others) has an active forums section, as do other fitness sites. Share knowledge. It's not just for IT/CS problems.

Answering the original post: I'd say techies (or anyone) would benefit from a weekly exercise regime consisting of 2-4 days of whole-body freeweight training, a HIIT cardio session or two, and an endurance cardio session or two. Addressing typical issues such as upper-cross syndrome, weak posterior chain, excess carb consumption, and generally neglected muscular strength, particularly lower-body (legs, glutes, spinal erectors) will matter. How far you take this is up to you, but you'll be stronger, hurt less, do more, and as you get older (it will happen, eventually), look and feel better. Especially naked.

While this is incredibly informative and I wish I had more than one up-vote, I feel quite intimidated by the information flood especially the point where it seems very VERY easy to do something wrong and end up with worth results in the long run...

The areas that end up being the most complex with regard to training end up being properly designing progression (how you increase the intensity of your workouts), rest and recovery (including extended breaks from training), injury and recovery, and yes, form.

These are also the areas in which I've seen most trainers spend the least time and offer the least value. Most are little more than motivational coaches -- a high-margin, easy-to-provide, but ultimately low-value service (you've either got motivation or don't, and either way, you've got to drag your ass to the gym or wherever else you train).

If you do start light, progress slowly, get critiqued on your lifting form (and realize that everyone has an opinion), and sort it out for yourself, you'll generally do pretty well.

This might just be me, but I find that doing 20 pushups every hour sort of helps "reset" my back, neck and ab muscles, and keeps me from getting chronic pain from unnecessary, habitual tension (holding my stomach, locking neck muscles, pushing shoulders forward, etc.)

I am not a physical therapist, but I did find a video of some interesting hand/wrist/elbow exercises which can be done at a desk or while riding in a car. [1]

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU

I jog with my wife a couple of times a week; back-pains, neck, etc. are all gone. I mean _everything_. I feel much better.

Seriously, jogging makes me feel better and helps me think straight.

I can now sit down in coffeeshop for a couple of hours without a $500 chair.

don't forget eye excersices - they eye doctor recommended the other day that every half an hour or so I rest my eyes from staring at the monitor by looking at something few meters away or just closing them.

Don't sit all day. Stand.

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