1,200 an hour!
Jeez, that is insane! good for them.
Once in a while, I come across something like this and wonder, what is it like to be that rich to casually drop 1,200 an hour, for anything, let alone on escorts.
Jeez, that is insane! good for them.
Once in a while, I come across something like this and wonder, what is it like to be that rich to casually drop 1,200 an hour, for anything, let alone on escorts.
> 8% reported legal trouble
> 8% reported being arrested
> 16% reported physical assault
> 17% reported contracting a STD
> 29% reported being stolen from
> 41% reported sexual assault
So no doubt the rates are in part a reflection of the risks providers take in the course of offering their services.
It is backed up by the author's analytics, though. Perhaps there are valid criticisms about her sampling methodology and the sample size at the very high end, but it's a good start.
I wonder if any money is worth having an extreme risk of getting a deadly virus.
I've always been mildly curious, my first thoughts were "Less than I thought!".
Hear me out (criticism of my thinking on this is very welcome):
In LA's Ktown, a Domi (a job I had no idea existed just a few years ago... google if curious) charges a base rate of $100/hr, plus tips. For the client, there is no guarantee of nudity or any physical contact, though it's of course up to each individual what they're willing to do (and for how much).
From the perspective of the client, $100/hr buys you in-person company in a public setting with someone young, conventionally attractive, dressed skimpily. The person will (pretend to) politely listen to you as you talk, (pretend to) smile, (pretend to) laugh at your jokes, pour drinks for you, (pretend to) agree with your opinions, and, if they choose to, drink with you.
The market supports that price ($100/hr!) for work that does not require ANY sex as requisite. I imagined "entry level" sex work would be priced ~10x (min 7x) over work done (skimpily) clothed and in public, and that, like many other goods and services, "luxury" would have a multiplier over "entry level brand" between 5x and the stratosphere. (I guess with cars it's ~3x.)
These assumptions yield a price of $5k/hr for "luxury brand sex work", ~4x the empirical data. If we assume that "luxury" has a multiplier of just 3x (but I bet it's more!), then the ratio of the market price of sex work over somewhat similar (companionship, paid to be pretty and objectified) work done clothed and in a public venue, in the same city,... can be at most 4x.
Only 4x?
This is what shocks me! :)
Somebody reading this comment (probably making minimum wage) might be thinking 20$ (1200/60) per day food budget is a luxury.
Anyway, all I was wondering is - a super tiny percentage of the population can afford to spend 1200 an hour, on anything. Must be nice to be that rich, lol.
In the past 20 years, I've been nearly homeless, working 2 minimum wage retail jobs 60/h week and cursing the lack of time or energy to improve my situation, and, at another extrema, regularly charged about $1,200/day for my time.
Right now I'm MUCH closer to the former than the later. I can tell you the latter is more fun! ;) But, even then, I'd spend $100/h for a luxury like fine dining, and spending $1000/h for a luxury would have seemed absurd. I imagine if, one made 10x the money, then spending $1000/h for a luxury might make sense?
But, like you said, it must be nice, agreed.
You're paying for looks, ease, simplicity, no strings, and so on... I get it. But idunno, that is a lot of money for one nut.
Also suprised the San Diego price is so high, when there is a red light district literally on the border in Tijuana, and those girls charge $60-$100/hr US to gringos (and less to spanish-speakers, locals, and people who pay in pesos)
> It strikes me somewhat oddly that one might pay so much for something that literally half the people on this planet is equipped to provide
High-end is basically differentiating yourself from average.
> You're paying for looks, ease, simplicity, no strings, and so on... I get it. But idunno, that is a lot of money for one nut.
It's cheap if you are rich and worried about lawsuits, law enforcement, blackmailing, your reputation, etc... Suddenly, $1200/h is quite cheap.
There's depths to it like you can't even imagine.
Sex is a market, and like any market, it has theories that can explain it.
For example: in most places, most of the time, prostitutes charge the same "rate" as wives do, because they're suppliers in competition, and the market sets the price.
Oh, you think your wife doesn't "charge" you for sex? How quaint and romantic! Of course she does. You're paying more rent. You're paying for more food. You're paying with expensive gifts, trips, and most importantly, you're paying to raise one or more kids. In many countries it's literally a crime for men not to pay child support.
If you step outside of your world for a second and look at it from the outside like an anthropologist might, you'll note that $1200/hour is about right for the "market price" in an nicer part of the world for affluent men. Most men have sex once or twice a week with their spouse, and more than half of their disposable income goes towards their partner and their kids.
Why?
> You're paying with expensive gifts, trips
Willingly
> you're paying to raise one or more kids
How is that a payment to wife? Those are my kids, it was my decision to make them so now I support them.
> In many countries it's literally a crime for men not to pay child support.
What does paying your social duties has with "payment to your wife"? What, society should raise your offsprings for free?
> Most men have sex once or twice a week with their spouse, and more than half of their disposable income goes towards their partner and their kids.
Partners are not exclusively for sex, partners are someone you want to spend your life with and, optionally, make kids.
Do you have problems with your wife or smth?
What a strange perspective. In the US at least, having a wife makes you richer, as most women work, and you still live in a one bedroom, so your total income is significantly higher but your costs are only marginally higher. Getting married to another member of the workforce is a great way to build wealth.
She sort of addresses it in the sentence that ends: "...and might be more likely to attract higher power men who are looking to “unlock” something they feel few other people have seen – your nudity."
I guess it's like anything. Things with a higher price feel more exclusive and we desire the things we can't have. If you can afford it, why would you skimp? If it's less affordable - maybe you'd prefer it to feel like an experience (at least in your own head) rather than 'one nut'?!
This is a luxury high-end part of the market. Ruled by the same dynamics as $200 steaks or $2000 bottles of champagne.
No steak is worth $200. But several people up-thread have made the point that $1200 per hour isn't that much, if you consider the alternatives (e.g. getting married - and if you can afford $1200 for a night out, then the divorce is probably going to be very, very expensive).
People will pay for convenience.
Also, if you are the higher paid earner in stable relationship I invite you to tally up the monthly cost sometime.
$1200 an hour, with a minimum 1.5 hours, so $1800. In addition to a 20-minute roll in the hay, you get an attractive, intelligent person for company, who is skillful at flattering men.
So these "half the people on the planet": if they're not prostitutes, then you will have to date them. You are not going to cop if you take your date out to KFC. Even taking them to a posh restaurant won't guarantee you'll get your end away.
So let's say you manage to get a date 6 nights a week, and you shell-out for a meal and a show ($350 each?). Let's say half of them are people that interest you. Let's say half of those would consider bonking someone on the first date.
So you're out-of-pocket $2100, you've spent three evenings chatting to someone that didn't interest you, and two of the others want more meals and shows (but how many?)
I think my guesses are wild overestimates. I have no idea how one might ever get 6 dates a week. Most women won't bonk you on the first date. Far less than 50% of women are "interesting" (FSVO interesting).
If your time is scarce and valuable, your standards are high, and you have enough money to e.g. take holidays in nice places, then spending a couple of grand on a classy girl for the evening, with a guaranteed payoff, doesn't look insane.
Throwing money at escorts is such a loser move (and the experience so far away from sex with a woman that truly desires you) that only someone who's never experienced the latter would seriously argue for paying 1200$ to have 20 minute sex with "an attractive, intelligent person for company, who is skillful at flattering men."
I'm 65. When I was 18, I was very scruffy, probably smelled bad, and had no money and no car. Women didn't exactly jump at me. I didn't try very hard to persuade them to. And there were no dating apps, and no websites.
I've never been into the "fuckem-and-chuckem" school of romance - I had a few one-nighters with pretty girls. If I was up for paying an escort, I'd pay for a nice one.
> the experience so far away from sex with a woman that truly desires you
So you've had the "escort experience"? Odd, then, that you'd say "throwing money at escorts is such a loser move". Maybe you chose badly?
Sounds on the mark to me. I'm extroverted AF, intelligent, can make just about anyone laugh, and can form deep bonds and have deep conversations with people I literally run into off the street. Trying to date in SFO though? Purgatory. I'm not tall - I'm 5'10". I'm not muscular but also not fat - I'm 140lb. I'm a niche good - I don't have the universal appeal of Chris Hemsworth. Therefore, real life is where I'd sell best because I do well in conversation and - unfortunately - that takes so much time. Sooooo much time. The biggest issue is just getting in front of a beautiful woman. Once I'm in front - I can shoot myself in the foot and be okay with it. But, the fact that I can't even get in front of one is the hugest barrier to my lack of dating horror stories to tell friends. It's depressing.
It's the land of 49ers and an escort like Aella sounds appealing to me. I don't know if I'd ever do it for two reasons though. Firstly, I'm a bit too dedicated to a woman's pleasure and I'd worry an escort would be too much in their head to actually enjoy themselves fully. I already have to deal with that with women as it is. I cannot imagine how much in your own head you are as an escort. There was an aspect she touched on in her article that I was thinking myself as I was reading - which is that at least now she gets paid to have mediocre sex. I'm not really into mediocre sex. She did enjoy some but I wonder what it takes for an escort to enjoy it. I've only engaged in sexual acts with women who were obviously very into me (if only for the moment due to some hormones but at least they were into me for that night or two!). I don't doubt her abilities to fake it well but I also think many men are blind, apathetic, or as self-absorbed as many women I've encountered... and I'm not. So I don't think the sex would be good for either of us unless she was into me. Thus, would it be a good experience even if it was free? Probably not. If she was into me then why are we not just dating instead of some paid transaction? I mean if we're dating then she should really be trying to convince me to buy the $3m house like my last partner wanted... $2k transactions are cheap in comparison!
Secondly, the money aspect is very real to me. I might have a couple million in the bank and a 1%er income but the value proposition just is hard for me to reckon with. I think, "$2000+ for a nice night out with a pretty lady who will only see me as long as I keep paying $2k+ for every interaction... or my soft and delicate keyboard warrior hand for the low low price of self-loathing and depression?" For someone who is a comedian in his social circle - it's quite obvious which I'm going for. Self-hatred is just too good to pass up.
Also - 20 minutes? You're with a total babe and you're gonna just spend 20 minutes? What the f. Whenever that kind of opportunity presents itself to me - you have to wheel us both out after.
Median income is $100,000/yr. My impression (from HN) is this isn't abnormal for non-entry-level tech workers in the US.
Edit: It's just about the median software engineer salary in the US. https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-develope...
Edit2: This previous read "100,000/hr". A transcription mistake.
Disagree. High end work of all sorts isn't the sort of thing you punch in and out of. Both have a high opportunity cost, in that in both cases you'll find it hard to work a similarly compensated second job. Also remember this is only "billable hours".
Edit: I just realized you've completely missed my point. I was replying to a comment the clients (i.e. not the sex workers) are crazy rich. I was presenting an argument for why they aren't.
Note "hour" versus "year".
Do you mean per year?
I'm curious what you think about the relative price comparison to hostess work in LA outlined above. Either you're charging too little, or.. there's some.. interesting implied conclusions about the low relative cost (from the worker's perspective) for sex work! Or there's not enough information liquidity in the market? Or...
I Am Not An Economist, but... I can't shake the feeling there's a mispricing somewhere. Possibly a juicy topic for a paper, blog post, or Planet Money episode.
Also, that gonewild post is genius. Thanks for the laughs.
And for what it's worth, flying to many places with a family of four can cost $1200/hour even in economy class.
Race to the bottom?
As someone who used services in the past, I don’t understand why anyone would spend any money at all on those… but they do find clients. Maybe it’s because if I lower my standards I can just easily find someone “for free” instead.
People will pay for convenience and certainty.
Not really, if you are interested in obtaining paid sex you don't have much choice. Most of the brothels are staffed by EE sex workers, been that way for well over a decade. German sex workers are rare in brothels, they work mostly escort and camgirl stuff.
The problem at its core is extreme poverty in EE - not many job opportunities that pay decent wages, so many people from there come to the nearest wealthy country aka Germany. Men go on the construction/agriculture gig job scene, women to prostitution... it doesn't pay much and the conditions both of work and living are extremely bad (just google "Arbeiterstrich München" if you want newspaper reports on the construction gig workers), but even this is better than life in their origin countries. As a result, German workers simply can't afford to work in this environment.