Apple benefits its own ads in the name of privacy | Hacker News Reader

Apple benefits its own ads in the name of privacy

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Apple is now apparently confident of its market position (and lack of competitors) today to believe that it can now sell "privacy as a service". This is actually bad news for its users for the following reason:

1. It's deceptive - by packaging privacy as a "service", Apple is trying to sell the idea that user data collection is ok again as long as it is done by Apple.

2. It takes away user's choice - Apple is now clearly telling you that if you use their platform you have to allow data mining by Apple. But Apple will be kind enough to show an icon informing you of the same, as a "privacy" feature. /s

Can someone explain which information Apple is using to target ads?

And that's a great trick - calling it "privacy" without reducing your own data collection/telemetry/spying, only your competitors. If I want privacy, Apple is included in the companies I want to stay private from!

The tweet [1] from April and blog post [2] from May. And everyone has a different definition of privacy. Which leads to [3].

But few have been asking these question since mid 2020 when Apple started a war against Data Collection. No one seems to care much.

[1] https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1387130787510751239...

[2] https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2021/5/13/apples-ads...

[3] https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2021/8/27/understand...

Yes, Apple explains it in their privacy policy: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin...

So geo-targeting, and targeting via fine-grained (5k people in the same segment) advertising profiles built from data such as your age, name, address, gender, what other apps you've installed, what content you've consumed in Apple products, etc.

So basically all of the stuff that they won't let their competitors do.

This is 100% gonna get litigated by the EU, and I really hope they lose, because the principle is really really important, regardless of what we think of adtech.

I;m trying to figure out why this is being spun this way. For years we have made the argument that services can be personalized without dangerous and crappy data privacy behaviors. Apple appears to be doing so. As long as they live with the restrictions that they force on others, its proof that companies don't need to buy and sell and compromise their customers to deliver a good product.

Why do you think they're living with the restrictions they put on others? All signs seem to be pointing to them doing the opposite.

I can turn off Apple’s ad tracking in a way that’s nontrivial for every other ad platform.

They do not live with the same restrictions though: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...

I think it’s a bit more nuanced. As far as I know Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. can still use whatever data they have on their logged-in users to target ads.

Apple argues that’s what they do, too. I haven’t delved deep into that, but think that, technically, they’re right.

Now question is whether Apple’s “whatever data they have on their logged-in users” is on equal footing with what the other big players have. Many iOS users are permanently logged into Apple (¿maybe not even when using a browser?). I guess many also are almost permanently logged into Facebook or Google.

Can you use an iPhone without an Apple account?

The only real comparator here is Google, who have similar information available to them on Android.

I don't understand this argument.

Its ok to trust your data to an advertising company because it just happens to sell a hardware device, but its not ok to trust your data to advertising company if they don't sell hardware devices?

With apple there’s a single toggle switch to turn the whole thing off and delete the collected data.

Is this really surprising. Apple consistently makes anticompetitive moves and sells them as benefits for the consumer.

I mean, imagine Apple making iOS users less opaque to advertisers so that consumers can finally get what they want — more footing for FB and Google to deliver relevant, exciting ads, just when you need them.

But it's not really about privacy - that's just a useful narrative that they will happily give up when it suits them - as they demonstrated recently with CSS.

Just like the idiotic arguments about app store rules being there to ensure quality, etc.

Apple is really good at putting a spin on these kinds of moves, taking anything they claim face value is extremely naive.

The article in question is about how iOS opacity is causing problems for marketplace fairness for ads. I'm taking the arguments made in this article in good faith.

Apple ought only be allowed to reduce iOS data exposure if they also take steps to assure the market that they are not gaining undue advantage over their competitors. Apple customers should be aghast at the blatant move to harm legitimate companies such as Facebook and Google. With iOS data opacity, as opposed to data transparency, we have a less competitive marketplace.

It’s called the 7 Powers of Business Strategy. Counter-positioning and cornered resources synergize really well.

Unless the ads use PII for targeting, why is this an issue?

I imagine these ads to just be keyword-based.

they use location.

They use other apps you have installed, which they have blocked for everyone who's not Apple.

Dumb question but what even is “apple search”? Is that searches in the App Store or is there more to it?

Not a dumb question at all. I've got pretty much all Apple products and a) I have no idea what "Apple search" is, and b) I can't remember ever seeing an ad delivered by Apple.

Yes, it is just the search for apps in their App Store.

It’s so ingrained in the OS, that it’s hardly noticeable. Yet I have certainly switched to performing initial web searches in “spotlight” rather than opening Safari.

On MacOS, (last I heard) they use Bing to deliver results you see in spotlight. On iOS, I believe it’s Google by default, for which Google pays billions of dollars each year. Mine is set to DuckDuckGo.

Then there’s the in-app searches, which yield a lot of what you need without ever going to a proper search engine. Apps and push products, travel services, etc. through spotlight search results that take you directly into the app.

Believe it or not, Apple presents a big challenge to Google’s search business, which is why they pay so much to remain on Apple’s platform.

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