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Comment by nonamechicken | Hacker News Reader

Not trying to dismiss the issue here. But I find this part of the article really ironic:

> Academics from King Abdullah University of Science and Technology in Saudi Arabia projected the sex ratio at birth in 29 Indian states and union territories, covering almost the entire population, taking into account each state’s desired sex ratio at birth and the population’s fertility rates.

> The study, published in the journal Plos One this week, called for strengthened policies that “advocate for gender equity and the introduction of support measures to counteract existing gender biases”.

Saudis are commenting about Indians on gender equality!

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No, academics are publishing research regarding a social issue in india. Why does it matter who they are? Let's say it does, are you saying Saudis abort girls similar to india or are you saying women's rights being considered bad relative to the west means saudis hate women, even their mothers and sisters? Perhaps you forget how recent women's right to vote and divorce is even in the west. Or maybe you think all the recent reforms regarding women's right in Saudi (they can finally travel on their own and drive) was thanks to western influence? Either way, ad-hominem against an academic work is not good in my opinion

Majority of the faculty and academics in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries used to be foreigners till the early 2000s at many of those research universities. I don't know what the percentage is today.

It seems that almost all the faculty in Qatar (which 1-2 decades behind Saudi Arabia in becoming "overnight" wealthy) are non-Qatari for the Georgetown Qatar University:

https://www.qatar.georgetown.edu/people/

I don't see them as academics, but rather propagandists. I am wondering what exactly does this study achieve? The sex selective abortion issue in India is not a new thing. It has been studied a lot since the last 30 years (one of the first law banning gender determination was enacted in 1994). So I fail to understand what is the point of doing it again in 2020, when they could use that time to study something more useful. Also, its not like people in India doesn't know this is an issue. India already has laws banning gender determination before birth. There are big notices plastered everywhere in the waiting rooms and inside the (ultrasound) scanning centers that says that "sex determination is illegal, and punishable with so and so jail term and fines". Because of the laws, only time people would find out about the gender is when the nurse brings the baby outside for everyone to see after birth.

This is one of the guidelines for scanning centres: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3498636/

>There should be a board, prominently displayed, with the message in English and the local language that ‘sex selection and detection is not done in this Centre and is punishable under the PC-PNDT Act’. This should be displayed in the waiting area and the USG room. No specific size for the message is suggested.

If one searches for "PC-PNDT Act arrest", they can find many news reports (so its not like 'misogynistic' Indians are doing nothing to stop it).

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/amritsar/doctor-se...

https://medicaldialogues.in/violation-of-pcpndt-act-doctor-a...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/sex-test-ra...

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/seven-ar...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/salem-doc-a...

https://www.hindustantimes.com/pune-news/pune-radiologist-se...

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/ambala-man-arrested-fo...

https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/woman-...

As for "Why does it matter who they are?": I am an Indian, and I visit HN multiple times a day. All the stories that get posted about India here belongs to one of the 3 categories - how Indians treat their women bad, how Indians are castist, or how Indian programmers are stupid. I am not saying not to shit on India or Indians, criticism is how we grow. But when the criticism is on a few selected areas, it leans towards propaganda. As for this specific topic, western media talks about it every chance they get. India has a huge number of problems, but focusing only one a few select things and stereotyping the people makes it look like propaganda to me.

> are you saying Saudis abort girls similar to india or are you saying women's rights being considered bad relative to the west means saudis hate women, even their mothers and sisters

I don't know how Saudis treat women. The only knowledge I have about Saudis is from Reddit. I am guessing you are a Saudi. So I hope you understand how social media stereotypes can turn harmful. My perception about the treatment of Saudi women is based on comments I see in Reddit. As for why I am opposed to it: here is one of the recent incidents that comes to my mind about how racial stereotypes can negatively impact people just based on their identity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leipzig_University_internship_...

I am not a saudi. India is a diverse nation, 1 out of 5 humans are indian, it is silly to have any strong generalized opinions for or against india as a whole without paying attnetion to the nuances of each indian state and socio-political complexities. I have no vested interest either way personally, you shouldn't assume my intent. People do thay too often these days on HN, last week someone accused me of working for apple when I defended a whistleblower lol.

> I don't see them as academics, but rather propagandists. I am wondering what exactly does this study achieve?

What kind of a propaganda has no goal? For you to claim it is propaganda you must at least show what they have to gain by it. You must dissect the facts fist and only if the evidence leads you to that direction should you make conclusions about people's intent. Unless of course you yourself are acting out of bias.

To me, I don't really care who did the study. India is not special in prefering boys over girls, I don't see any stereotypes being propagated. Any populous country where men have a better chance at becoming bread winners is like this. Things continue to improve for india, if this study is garbage then discard it. If there is merit to it them use this as an opportunity to make the lives of Indians better.

I personally have great hopes for india, I think the nation has a better chance of dominating the 21st century than China does, mostly because it is not a hostile nation to the rest of the world like China or even the US. India is the one nation I am rooting for. But whatever the country is, I dislike it when people are so defensive about it. I get the same sentiment in the US, "if you don't like it, leave." , yeah... I know I can leave, I chose to stay and change things for the better. You criticize what you like and ignore what you despise. It's actually a bigger problem I encounter in many other areas as well, people considering a criticism of a situation as some political move instead of an attempt to correct and fix a problem.

I agree with nonamechicken, he made a thorough assessment of the situation.

The fact that sex selection is illegal is so well known that I knew it even as a kid.

As a large former colony that has not yet fallen to communism, islam or christianity, India does have a large target painted on its back.

Searching for India on HN and looking through the results should convince you that there are plenty of motivation for propagandists to come together.

In this regard I would recommend them studying the 1 man 4 wives problem in the Islamic world.

This is a far more worrying scenario. It is my belief that if the OIC came together and enforced one man - one women, a lot of problems like ISIS would disappear.

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