Building Windows 8 | Hacker News Reader

Building Windows 8

blogs.msdn.com

I think some commenters here seem to have missed (or forgotten about) the IE blog[1] and the Windows 7 blog[2] which had great technical articles. This initial post resembles the first Windows 7 blog post posted 3 years ago [3]. If this new blog continues the standard set by these other two, then I have high hopes.

Bottom line: This post does sound fluffy because it is intended as an introduction to an entire series of posts of the development of Windows 8.

[1]: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/ [2]: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/ [3]: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2008/08/14/welcome.aspx

I agree there was content, but the wording, to me, way too often made it look as if a flock/herd (what's that called? A burial?) of marketeers vetted every stroke of every character in those posts.

"Building the next release of Microsoft Windows is an industry-wide effort that Microsoft approaches with a strong sense of responsibility and humility" and "we learned some great lessons and renewed our sense of responsibility to the community"

Given that this was full of stuff worded like this, I sort of doubt that. You feel like you're being snowed from the first sentence onwards. I realize this is somewhat orthogonal to the technology that might be included. However, this is supposed to be from "inside the engineering team", and it's almost completely tone-deaf. Either they need to hire more intelligent PR people or, I don't know, let actual engineers talk about what they are building.

He's not a PR guy. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Sinofsky

MSDN blogs are usually full of stuff MS engineers are doing. I think he is trying to write to a more broader audience than just developers (bloggers, social media people, etc.), hence the crafty wording.

I think he's a president at Microsoft. Nothing but great respect for this guy.

Great blog on history of Windows and why things are the way they are: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/

The real reason for the PR like speak is what he says in the blog post. They don't want to end up with the WinFS like fiasco where they over promised but under delivered.

MS is still ridiculed about WinFS.

Wait for the engineering blogs to actually start. They will have the real meat like the Windows 7 engineering blogs did.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/

Is there something like this for OS X or Chrome OS ?

I think what he is referring to by "industry wide effort" is the fact that microsoft works with a lot of partners early through the milestone and incorporates a lot of feedback. That way a lot of partner companies other than Microsoft have a say in what goes in the next release.

I had the rare opportunity to speak with Mr. Raymond Chen and Mr. Larry Osterman last week. Both were extremely down-to-earth and full of enthusiasm for windows 8. I mean, this product has 1 billion users across the world and for a lot of people, this will be the first computing experience. I am truly excited about this windows release.

Disclaimer : MSFT Intern but I haven't worked on / don't work on Win 8.

Seems like an awful lot of words to say (a) computing has changed much in the last 15 years [you don't say!], and (b) we're going to start talking about changes early so the market isn't surprised or apprehensive.

Not much meat in there.

Indeed, a very long-winded way to say "don't forget about us, we are working on something".

I have been a mac/ubuntu user for the last ten years, but Windows 8 is the first time Microsoft has really caught my attention since the xbox came out.

Wow, really? Which parts, exactly?

I'm genuinely curious, as someone who's been a Windows user for basically his entire computing life.

I'm guessing Metro UI caught his attention, and I must admit - I also find it quite interesting and for lack of better word - beautiful.

Well, as someone who only uses Windows when he has to, I'd say IE10 being the default browser is pretty exciting. Win7 ships with IE8 so people may or may not upgrade. With IE10, it's "HTML5" in full force.

http://html5test.com/results.html

I fail to see your point. IE10 looks like a great improvement but only when compared to itself. Even current Tablet/Mobile browsers seem to have far greater support than what IE10 will give!

Google Chrome 14.0.797 Score:329

Google Chrome 13.0.782 Score:329

Firefox 6.0a2 Score:312

Apple Safari 5.1 Score:293

Microsoft Internet Explorer 10 PP 2 Score:231

Microsoft Internet Explorer 10 PP 1 Score:125

Why the downvote?

IE10 isn't even close to done. At any rate, see the huge jump in HTML5 compatibility? IE raising the bar so much is a big win. In many corporations, IE is the only browser that people care about. Becoming more compliant means it's easier for developers to write "standard" web apps.

I feel the same way; what we've seen of Win8 marks the first rethinking of desktop computing since the original WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointers). (Not the first, actually, but the first to actually see the light of day from a vendor as big as MS). And the fact that it's HTML5-based doesn't hurt. :)

What exactly are they rethinking? To me it looks like a desperate attempt to catch up with the tablet trend without leaving their massive existing customer base out in the cold.

They're definitely cribbing some from tablets, but they're also doing so using WinPhone7, which was itself an innovative take on touchscreen phones (at least, compared to the Android/iPhone norms). But I think the overall idea of subdivided rectangles with large touch targets is a pretty interesting one. (I'll be less excited if they stop there.) :P

So what do you suggest they do? Stay with a stagnating UI that's not suitable for anything other than a desktop in fear of looking "desperate"? The UI they pulled off is far from desperate, in my personal opinion it beats everything available right now in the mobile world as far as usability and looks go. For example, I haven't seen any one call the new windows phone UI anything short of amazing and it's the same concepts that will be applied to the Win8 UI from what I've seen so far. Their approach also seems much more likely to remain unified across multiple touch device form/scale factors when compared to something like Android.

As far as being last to arrive at the scene, need I remind that this is Microsoft? They're always last, and sometimes that actually works out for them (XBox, .NET), and sometimes it doesn't (Bing).

I grudgingly have to agree with you here. Neither iOS nor Android really radically break from the UI conventions of the desktop. Microsoft's latest UIs are both bolder and more elegant. And with C# they have the best development stack by far of the three.

I just like to see them generating buzz through change. The new metro UI and general a-typical microsoft behavior.

More helpful (to me) was the two-month-old YouTube video preview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I

Although I am not a Windows developer, if I were, I would appreciate some more information as to what to expect when developing applications on W8. So far, I've only heard HTML+JS, which is great, but hopefully more information on developing for W8 will make its way soon.

I believe this to be a misunderstanding of the press out for W8. They are simply promoting the fact that you can now have HTML+JS+CSS as first-class apps. They don't seem to be deprecating support for native or .NET based development.

My impression is that the HTML/JS stuff will mainly be used for "widgets" off the home screen. I guessing its more of an iteration the ActiveDesktop/Dashboard/Sidebar type thing rather than a mainstream approach to AppDev.

Oh, and Windows has allowed you to create "HTML Applications" since IE4 came out, so it's not exactly like a new feature.

>"Welcome to 'Building Windows 8,' or as we call it, 'B8.'"

Srsly? Bait? +1 for honesty.

Just wait for the book. "How to Master Building Windows 8".

From what I've mostly seen and read else where, it really looks like Windows 8 is going to a cross between Windows 7 and webOS.

This headline would have a different meaning if it was an open source project.

Yup, I honestly expected an article about the build environment and stuff like build times. Can you compile Windows from scratch on a regular development machine in a decent time frame? I guess it depends on whether you're thinking of the Windows kernel or Windows the desktop environment.

I posted my own version.

http://batkin.tumblr.com/post/8967355366/building-windows-8

I agree that they could have taken a different angle with the post title, even though it isn't open source. I'm sure many would be interested in hearing about how they build it. I would.

A cursoy search gives this:

http://mkl-testhead.blogspot.com/2011/01/testhead-book-club-...

http://www.developerfusion.com/media/59835/dogfooding-tfs-at...

I am sure there's more content on Channel 9 etc.

Though it's a pretty old, this Microsoft presentation from USENIX 2000 describes how Windows NT development evolved from NT 3.1 through Windows 2000, including details about source control and build machines.

Windows: A Software Engineering Odyssey

https://db.usenix.org/events/usenix-win2000/invitedtalks/luc...

There was a blog post but its is gone. Here is one describing that blog post:

http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-employee-details-how-wind...

Given how insightful the previous site for Windows7 was, this is surely one to follow.

Why is a PR puff piece receiving so many votes?

Astroturfers.

(disclaimer: I worked on Win 7 and Win 8. Don't work at MS now.)

The Windows 7 engineering blog led by Sinofsky was really well received. I worked on a few posts and internally there was an extremely high bar for clarity, accuracy, and usefulness of the content. And there was serious attention paid to feedback.

This post doesn't really say anything other than that the engineering blogs are starting up again - that's what people seem to be excited for.

Oddly enough, Windows' best versions have been ones with simple numbers (3, 7) as opposed to verions with years (95, 98) or names/acronynms (ME/XP). Here's hoping 8 will continue that trend.

Truly unfortunate combination of project abbreviation and font. I read it as B$.

Hopefully it doesn't stick.

They call this process B8 - bait

I really like the fact that they mentioned "performance" a bunch of times. Windows has needed some serious streamlining and performance tweaks for a while now.

Have you used Win7?

yes...still could be faster.

I've heard rumour that MS has already axed any radical changes to the UX. In other words, the Windows 95 interface will continue. Windows needs a vision, right now it looks like it is being run by a Dilbert comic. If it wasn't for Bill, we would be using Program Manager and File Manager with Aero graphics. Sad. Get rid of the Gorilla.

Didn't you see the "radical new WP7-inspired UI"? (Which will presumably have to revert to a normal Windows desktop as soon as you actually launch an app.)

Whoa, Digg in 2006.

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