Comment by riversflow | Hacker News Reader

Comment by riversflow | Hacker News Reader

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> boys have a father for role model and many other places in their community they can get one too: church, boy scouts, friends fathers, others

Wow, so this is exactly what people are talking about when they say check your privilege. Do you expect children to seek out a father figure in their community and have the presences of mind to consider their options and pick a good one? I grew up in a pretty privileged community and know multiple guys who had no significant father figure, or (probably worse)a very unhealthy one. As Ive gotten older I’ve come to appreciate how unless your parents are both complete rockstar geniuses, it really helps to have a variety of both father and mother figures in your life to give you better context for how to mature and succeed in life.

> but we did not have this problem.

Yeah, I guess when the patriarchal aristocracy was virtually the only group getting advanced degrees we didn't have this problem. lol. Nevermind that society was extremely geared toward getting and staying married and was very judgemental about women who chose not to have kids and out of wedlock children in times gone by. There’s a reason we celebrate people like Marie Curie and Grace Hopper, they stood against social expectations and showed the male-dominated world what women were capable of.

A little less melodramatic, please. They aren't telling children themselves to find it, only that there are more options beyond school.

>it really helps to have a variety of both father and mother figures in your life to give you better context for how to mature and succeed in life.

Isn't that exactly what the GP is saying, and relates to the question they are asking? We have more options than just school for male role models, so why would a lack of male role models in just school be the problem?

>I grew up in a pretty privileged community and know multiple guys who had no significant father figure, or (probably worse)a very unhealthy one.

And here is the real crux of it all. The argument that it doesn't matter where the role model is coming from, as long as the children have one. Yet one can argue in recent years, the family unit has been breaking down. Not just in the form of broken homes and divorces causing fathers to lose touch with their kids, but also expecting society and education to raise kids despite the severe lack in father figures (read: boy-positive male teachers).

>Showed the male-dominated world what women were capable of.

As an aside, where men were dominating the top, they were also dominating the bottom. And they still are dominating both the top and the bottom. The whole "patriarchy" thing isn't as rose-colored for men as people like to believe it is, and such statements contribute to the current narrative which leaves the boys described in the article on the wayside.

So much condescension in your response, no I am not expecting a child to find role model, only that there is more place than public school where child finds the role model. This is exactly why I had a list of others, church, boy scouts, etc. I knew some growing up who had no good father figure, these were places they find them. I think we must limit degree to which government employee acts as role model for child.

I do not think child participates in "patriarchal aristocracy", I only say that me and many other people I know have found other role model than biological father even without having male teacher. I do not know why there is pertinence on children out of wedlock, we mostly still see it as bad but I think you have already some anger on this subject and it has no relation here. Are you making statements that government school must provide male role model so women can have children without marriage and those children have role model? In loco parentis is not the intended normal course for all children to such an extent.

>This is exactly why I had a list of others, church, boy scouts, etc.

And this is exactly why I said you are acting privileged, most of my friends have no religion and I dont even know anyone who was in the scouts. Going to a friend's house wasnt easy, male teachers absolutely helped, in a big way. I'm glad that worked for those guys, but that's hardly universal. Not everyone has a community to support them.

>I think we must limit degree to which government employee acts as role model for child.

Care to elaborate as to why you think that? I have the diametrically opposite opinion. Looking at this data, society is currently failing boys, I think that providing more role models is a step in the right direction. If the government doesnt do it for those less fortunate boys, who will?

>I do not know why there is pertinence on children out of wedlock, we mostly still see it as bad but I think you have already some anger on this subject and it has no relation here.

What? I have anger on this subject? nah. Please don't make assumptions about how others feel, its pretty rude and destructive. We're talking about societal trends of boys having less father figures, that absolutely has relavence here. I also find your presumption of seeing single mothers as bad as pretty... archaic. Live and let live.

> I do not think child participates in "patriarchal aristocracy

I'm sorry, I guess I was clear enough, my point was directed at:

>>>For a long time teacher was only a job for young unwed women, but we did not have this problem with boys

When being a teacher was only a job for young unmarried women and we weren't having this problem with boys, elite academics absolutely was the realm of the patriarchal aristocracy. To be very clear, I'm positing that we didnt have this problem because academics used to be sexist and classist. Times change, society changes and government needs to adapt.

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