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Comment by 0des | Hacker News Reader

> The rates seem roughly comparable therefore?

Is this asking a question?

Edit: Today I learned the best course for a non native speaker is to not ask questions.

It’s an open offer for someone who understands better to clarify or confirm incase OP has missed something from their calculations.

It's confusing when people end what appears to be a declarative statement with a question mark, not sure why I'd get in trouble for asking.

It can also be an artifact of a foreign language. The french interrogatory form can be the same as the declarative. It seems likely in this case, their use of "therefore" is equivalent to the fench "alors" which is often employed to "interrogate a declaration"

It's the written equivalent of uptalk[0], I wouldn't say it is uncommon at all. It would only really be confusing the first time you come across it -- like most things.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal

Not without an ellipsis it's not.

You're not in trouble?

Generally speaking, this situation does not seem confusing for many native speakers. The question mark indicates uncertainty about the statement instead of asking “<Statement>. Can anyone refute this or provide insight to the original significance?”. In this case, the author drew a conclusion about other data which seems to make the original article seem less important or less significant, but instead of declaring it as a fact outright, the author is choosing to mark it with uncertainty instead which will invite a discussion if they are wrong on some aspect of it.

> this situation does not seem confusing for many native speakers

English was not my first language, and this peculiar phrasing confused me. Asking for clarity seems like a natural thing to do in this situation.

It is, but it came of as criticism to me, because using the question mark this way is quite common here on HN and elsewhere.

I apologize heartily for offending you, that is not my intent.

You did not offend me(with the first post) and I did not downvote you. I just explained, why you received negative feedback - basically missunderstanding. But talking about missunderstanding: I understand your last comment as snarky, unwarranted sarcasm. This I would downvote.

FWIW, does not read sarcastic from the sidelines.

And as mentioned elsewhere, the entire thread seems like a good natured discussion: perhaps it felt different without the original "edit".

It seems to be a rather recent phenomenon here on HN (broadly speaking) and for me it falls pretty much in the same category as other overly familiar and rude language patterns such as 'AF' (short for 'as fuck') or 'tho', 'cuz', or 'w/' instead of 'though', 'because', or 'with'.

There is a rudeness in making it one of these faux-questions filled with implications instead of clearly stating what it is you want to say.

This practice (adding a ? to a declarative sentence) is very informal, and so you wouldn't see it used in published English language media, so I'm not surprised that you may never have encountered it. It's used as a shorthand method of inviting clarification when the author is unsure of the veracity of the claim.

This sub-thread reminds me that there are many informal rules in languages that are rarely taught, and which can trip up non-native speakers. Informal shorthands, idioms, slang, etc.

It's like a written form of Uptalk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal

Everything about this exchange seems fine to me. You asked a clarifying question about an “advanced” usage of the question mark, and you were answered with a neutral description of what’s going on.

I'm a native English speaker and this trend confuses me pretty often. It's not always clear whether the person:

1. is sincerely asking a question

2. accidentally hit they question mark key instead of the period

3. is mimicking the valley girl inflection

It's not that much of a problem here, but it's much more pronounced in places where people rarely use complete sentences to begin with. Such as chat rooms, etc.

> is mimicking the valley girl inflection

:-) I was thinking this but couldn't find the right phrase.

It could also be expressing uncertainty. You want to make an assertion but not 100% sure you are right. A question mark at the end expresses some self doubt and leaves it open to correction. I use '?' that way quite often.

>not sure why I'd get in trouble for asking.

Both of your comments can be construed as linguistic pedantry. Particularly, saying "it's confusing" rather than e.g. "I find it confusing" is pretty prescriptive - and it just sounds like you're doubling down on your first comment.

If you want to ask a question about a feature of language, it helps to add the context that you're unfamiliar with the language itself. Otherwise, most readers will assume that you're attempting to correct the user you're replying to. Commenting on people's use of language is considered quite rude in most internet communities - not least because of the number of ESL users.

I used this process, and came up with the numbers, 140 and 250, and they are kind of close in my opinion, though I'm not 100% sure. What do you think?

shortened, becomes:

I used this process, and came up with these numbers, 140 and 250, and they are kind of close?

Why you got in trouble: people thought you were criticizing the original comment for hiding a statement to look like a question. (A common underhanded tactic to do and a common criticism - "was that a question?".)

In spoken English, this would be expressed by ending the sentence with an exaggerated pitch change for the question and a pause; it’s a way to indicate uncertainty and give someone else an opportunity to affirm or provide a contrary opinion without conflict.

Rendering it in written English is not correct per formal rules, you’d probably never see this in an English textbook, but it’s a semi-common colloquialism in forums like these.

Putting a question mark at the end like this imitates the change of intonation when speaking with uncertainty.

Eg:

I think I left the phone in my car.

I think I left the phone in my car?

While technically incorrect in written English, this is very common in casual speaking and has found its way into casual writing.

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