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Comment by DeathArrow | Hacker News Reader

One of the decisions that payed the most in my later programming endeavors was deciding to learn C and C++ in high school, after Basic and Pascal. That taught me a lot about how computers work and how the programs are supposed to run, once in memory.

When I've learned higher level languages later, it helped me to know what is under the hood. So, if I'm supposed to teach someone programming, I'll start with C or a sane subset of C++ rather than Python.

The other decision that payed a lot was learning algorithms and data structures.

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So you learned Basic and Pascal before you tackled C and C++, but you think other students should start directly with C or C++?

Yes. Basic and Pascal did not help me much.

I've given this advise before and it may sound really weird but I stand by it. Beginner programmers should read this book: http://www.z80.info/zaks.html

Yes, it's old. Yes, it's for a non-current CPU. But it explains how a CPU _really_ works, how binary numbers work, etc. It's a fantastic primer for understanding what's really going on inside the machine, and because it is old, it isn't yet burdened by all the complications of modern CPUs. At the same time, learning those will be easy after you understand what was written here.

Of course when I read it, I was 15, and sitting behind a Z80-based machine, writing assembly programs by writing them out on a piece of paper, and translating to hex codes by hand... Ah, fun times :-) The biggest thing I ever wrote that way was an RLE cruncher which I had designed myself. You take care of details when you program that way, I can tell you...

Sounds like you think everyone should learn programming the exact same way you did?

Wasn't there some rule about not immediately assuming the worst here?

>One of the decisions that payed the most in my later programming endeavors was deciding to learn C and C++ in high school

I started with C++ in high school, but probably not $newest_version_at_the_time and it was mess for me

I felt like I was fighting language / compiler instead of trying to solve problems. "wtf? I remember that it worked fine week ago! <googling again some basic thing like array length>" or asking teacher about compiler errors

Somebody then showed me C# and I instantly switched

> C.. C++ ... That taught me a lot about how computers work and how the programs are supposed to run, once in memory.

Both langs are terrible ways to learn about how computers works. Only help how computers, that sadly have OS made with C/c++, need to so you interface with it.

I"m unsure if actually exist a lang that ACTUALLY teach how computers works.

I don't remember that a language have explicit ways to code with the CPU cache, or the CPU registers, and the context switches, and the traps, etc. C is not a model of how computers works. Is yet another abstraction, and not a good one.

I prefer much more pascal because is more sane, and Rust today. But not even Rust teach you much about computers.

Instead, you NEED to learn how computers works THEN map that to how Rust/c is and PROBABLY it will work well (In Rust, I have a word: Async. Nope, that is not how computers work!).

For example:

    a //if String, heap, if i64 stack

Different if:

    Stack<a>
    Heap<a>

This is more on line with the idea.

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