Talk about misrepresenting facts to mislead.
People who were rioting were met with force. These protesters weren't being peaceful, they were attacking camera crews and reporters. They were assaulting police officers.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/21/victo...
> it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences
It's not.
If you're talking about the quarantine system that's under trial, yeah, I'm not particularly keen on that either. It's optional. You can choose to stay in hotel quarantine instead.
And to address the wider point of violence in protests is it not sometimes necessary? If you believe your government has become tyrannical and they are willing to use force against you then what other option do you have?
You've got that arse-about.
They were met with regular uniformed police, like in the BLM protests that happened multiple times in the last 12-18 months.
The BLM protesters managed to remain peaceful, didn't assault reporters, bystanders, or police, and didn't damage property. They protested, and then dispersed on their own.
All while protests were illegal.
There were uniformed police there as well but they were definitely met by public order response teams who are much more heavily armoured/equipped and travel around in vehicles with blacked out windows. [1] [2] [3]
[1] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXL5iC...
[2] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiM5bT...
[3] https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/cee5e8e0abbb5138fa1c8d40...
You said:
> The problem is that when you make protests illegal and meet them with riot police only the most hardened/radical protesters will turn up.
This is not what happened. The initial response was, as is typical with all large scale protests - to have regular uniformed police monitoring it, and controlling traffic/the direction of the protest.
The specialist/better equipped teams like the Public Order Response Team are almost always on standby during a large protest/march. They're only deployed when things get heated or actually turn violent.
This is pretty much the same thing that happens in other western countries whenever there's a large protest.
Ummm no that's just false. You can easily search the amount of damage caused by those "protests". There were billions of dollars in property damage.
https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a4...
https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/black-lives-matter-protesters-...
https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/riots-following-george-floyds-...
The links you provider are all about the US.
The Australian BLM protests remained peaceful.
The 3rd alternative is that you're not aware of what BLM means when they discuss systemic racism. It is not just guilt, it opines that the entirety of western civilization is corrupt due to it's creation by racist evil white men.
It's also not necessary the same governments, or just government at all.
The federal government abdicated their responsibility to manage quarantine and border security to the states. It's been the states that have been managing quarantine, largely through Hotels (except in the Northern Territory, where they've had the Howard Springs facility.
Please point out where protesting is illegal.
* Shopping for necessary goods and services
* Caregiving or medical care
* Authorised work or education
* Exercise (limit of 4 hours a day)
* Social interaction (included in the same 4 hour limit above)
* To get a vaccination
As you will see protest is not a permitted reason to leave home.
Even if a protest of 10 people was permitted that's not a serious argument. Basically all protests aim for strength in numbers.
This is not true at all. As an Australian who has been following protests closely and the police response, they are clearly only shooting rubber bullets at those who are:
- Throwing glass bottles at police
- Attacking "fake news" journalists
- Damaging buildings and monuments.
Black Lives Matter protests peacefully marched through the city last year and no rubber bullets were used.
> why it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences
Unless you're in quarantine, this is not a requirement. Are you suggesting that we should not have a quarantine program? Or continue to use hotels, which are ill-equip for quarantining, and lead to the initial outbreaks here in Australia?
> I guess strict authoritarianism must be accompanied with equally strict media propaganda.
Media diversity has never been worse. I agree that things need to change. That however, has nothing to do with CHO directives.
NSW: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/09/23/australia...
VIC: https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1447314509949984768
The second one it's pretty clear they were.
I don't know which protests they were, but a number of anti-lockdown/vaccine protests were violent, which is likely the reason the police were investigating. That it's months later is almost certainly because police have been going through a shitload of leads.
The same thing is happening in the US where people suspected of participating in the January 6 riots are/were being investigated months after events.
The events aren't remotely comparable in terms of background, the events themselves, or what led to the events. If you can't see the difference between protests against state-wide lockdowns including curfews, restrictions on freedom of association, travel bans, etc and a group of people rioting to contest an election result all it shows is that you are so biased to the point that your opinion isn't worth considering in a serious discussion about events in Australia relating to the response to the pandemic.
There are potential defences of Australia's response (although they are increasingly seen as apologetic at best, or an outright defence of human rights abuses at worst) but saying the protests are in any way similar to the US capitol attack is not one of them.
You said:
> Police going door to door in NSW/VIC investigating protestors against lockdowns months after they have occurred.
Police are not going door to door. So, that part is inaccurate.
Police are investigating someone suspected of an offence. It's hardly unusual for it to take police months to conduct investigations.
The problem in Australia is not the media or the politicians, it's the actual electorate. Ordinary Australians pine for despotism. Unfortunately the general public are the last group outsiders think to blame, so there's this real mismatch between their theories of what's happening in Australia versus the on-the-ground reality.
They're attempting to equate anybody who leaves their home with being a rioter who attacked police.
Australia has been mostly unvaccinated until recently[1] due to a botched vaccine procurement process[0] by the federal government. After a quarantine leak in NSW[2], harsh interstate border controls were implemented by all other states, including quarantining of all interstate travellers from NSW in hotels. Cases leaked into Victoria and the ACT and started their own outbreaks[3,4], but the remaining states are still Covid-free.
The requirements described in [5] are a significant easing of freedoms for interstate travellers. I would personally have loved to have quarantined in my own home, and if I need to send a photo of myself occasionally, so be it. I think it is a justified exchange of privacy in exchange for, in the example of Queensland (population 5.185 million), only 558[6] local cases and 7 deaths over the entire pandemic.
[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/world/asia/japan-south-ko... [1] https://chrisbillington.net/aus_vaccinations.html [2] https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_NSW.html [3] https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC_2021.html [4] https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_ACT.html [5] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-austra... [6] https://covidlive.com.au/qld
Say what? Got a link?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-austra...
https://katv.com/news/coronavirus/new-program-tracks-quarant...
[Home quarantining] participants will receive advice via the smartphone app as to their obligation at random times to provide the selfie back to the public health teams. Should that not be responded to in a period of time, follow up calls or visits are made so as to make sure that the person is where they should be,” Foley explained.
Considering this is being trialed as an alternative to being locked under guard in a hotel or cabin for two weeks, it’s actually less invasive too…
Modern technology reducing it to 14 days and a few photos in the comfort of your home seems an improvement, not a slippery slope.
Slippery slope aside, why can’t the government merely enforce the curfew by telling citizens not to leave their homes instead of forcing them to take selfies at random intervals? If you don’t comply they send the police to your home. If you don’t comply out of protest, they’ll jail you for your safety, where you’re more likely to catch the disease they’re trying to keep you from catching. Pure insanity.
Since when is the choice between "in-home photo surveillance" and "intentionally spreading COVID"?
Almost every country was hit hard by covid except those who stopped it at the border.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/quarantine-stations-us.html
Things aren't going back to normal, when Australia opens up regardless of vaccination status thousands of people will die if they are lucky and tens of thousands if they are not.
The vaccines have been a huge disappointment with constant goal post moving the only way to keep people from noticing.
The biggest problems are a huge focus on the risks of AstraZeneca, and the overall lack of availability of Vaccines.
The vaccine rollout is progressing well, despite the rocky start and general fuckups by the federal government.
We're on track for 70% double-dosed by 24th of October, and 80% by 7th of November[1].
Those are the two major figures for rolling-back restrictions that were put in place. Individual states are varying on their own internal restrictions.
So, you can see that coercion isn't required.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-inter...
> An extremely long list of “authorised workers” are now required to be vaccinated, including marriage celebrants, personal trainers, emergency service workers, public sector employees, religious workers, and many others. All authorised workers who do not comply with the vaccination requirement will not be permitted to attend their place of employment but will have to work from home or lose their jobs.
https://www.abc.net.au/religion/human-rights-and-mandatory-c...
We have substantially lower death rates than Florida, which has a comparable population.
Florida: 3,600,000 covid cases 56,667 deaths
Melbourne: 54,470 covid cases 913 deaths
This remains true for the rest of Australia. Unfortunately, we are in a remarkable position compared to many parts of the world.
The median covid death is 85 years old. We spent 4 million dollars to save one 85 year old person for a few more years.
You keep quoting 300 billion, where are you getting that from?
It's like that classic Pirates vs Global Average Temperature chart[1]
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-f...
One is not the cause of the other, in either direction.
The US Federal Government has spent trillions on COVID related bills. Over $5.3 trillion if this[1] is to be believed.
USD$5.3 trillion / US Population = $16k/person (approx)
AUD$291 billion / AU Population = AUD$11400/person (~USD$8,300 approx)
On the face of it, we spent a whole lot less, and have had at least as good, if not a better economic outcome.
[1] https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2021/03/heres-everything-congress-...
Using the US dataset as an example of mortality when covid-19 is allowed to spread unrestricted in a population, 700,952 died. Only 193k were 85 and older, so the median covid death must be younger than that - in the lower end of the 74-85 age cohort where another 185k have died.
So you found one number in my argument that you dont like and that invalidates my entire point? Is that what you're saying? What number would you prefer instead of the 85? Does that change everything?
Australia’s numbers won’t match what happens when covid-19 spreads widely, because they successfully stopped it.
Yea, it does invalidate your point, the average years of life lost from a Covid-19 death is fourteen not a few as you suggested. Many, many people lost more than a decade of productive, happy life to this virus in countries where it was allowed to spread. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/16/americans-l...
“That car is running really well. Why don’t we dismantle the engine?”
My American-born kids are going to school in KN95 masks and spent most of last year doing temperature checks and health screenings.
One of these looks like "a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction", certainly.
Now have them attempt that on the mainland. They'll be liable to have their bones broken by the police response.