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Comment by mathverse | Hacker News Reader

It is amazing that some americans can be so picky to give up their many hundred thousand/per year jobs because they dont want to go to the office.

I am just envious at how developed your tech scene is.

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They aren't given up anything. They can walk into multiple other jobs with similar pay and benefits, and that's the problem Amazon has.

It isn't being picky, it is employees having actual worth and choice. Employees can "pick" the pay, conditions, and benefits that suite them best: In this case moving out of one of the highest housing cost areas in the country.

I think you misread his comment. He's saying that what you're describing is a privilege developers in many other countries don't enjoy.

It’s not about being picky, it’s about knowing your worth. If an employer chooses a ham-fisted approach of forcing everyone to work out of the office, then they will have to pay the consequences of their top talent leaving for companies that are more flexible (and often pay the same or more)

Wasn't amazon but this is exactly what happened, they mandated "back to the office, no exceptions" last summer, I put my notice in and went to work for a company that was 100% remote, within a year I got promoted from lead upwards.

Turns out sometimes not only is the grass greener but it's much better tasting as well.

Ironically the place I left announced a "developers can work from home forever" policy a couple of months ago (after they'd lost 7 out of 9 senior devs off their 9 teams - the attrition rate wasn't much lower for non-seniors).

They are so fucked it's not even funny - literally decades of accumulated domain/business knowledge walked out the door.

The social contract is different here. You focus on the salary but most employees are considered fungible here by most employers with 'industry standard' as a synonym for 'sucks about as much as what we consider our competitors'. Due to the unique circumstances, employees in some industries finally have some ability to try to better their lot so it would be irrational of them to not avail themselves of likely a once-in-many-lifetimes opportunity before the iron fist of our corporate masters comes crashing down upon our spines again. Yes, I am old and cynical - how did you know :) ?

They aren’t giving up anything. They’ll just switch to working at another company offering them hundreds of thousands. Those jobs are plentiful.

The way I read the parent comment, it's not that people are "giving up" the ability to make hundreds of thousands, but rather they're able to give up their role at a company paying that much because the market allows them to make that money elsewhere.

This is not possible everywhere.

The flip side is that many feel an intense pressure to do whatever it takes to get the most lucrative job they can find because the US has much less of a social safety net than many European countries.

Once you get beyond a certain threshold that's not really true. Or it's a story they tell themselves because they care more about money than other considerations.

Have you ever had a 1 month long holiday? Not sabbatical, just regular PTO.

Yes, multiple times--most recently a few years ago was close to that just pre-pandemic. Another probably 4x in the 3 week to 4 week range in previous job. Pretty standard tech industry jobs. More recently have had many other multi-week holidays that were a combination of tech events and pure PTO.

I realize a fair number of people can't do that or, commonly in my experience, feel that they can't do that but it's not actually impossible if that's what you prioritize.

It is amazing that some Americans are so picky about going to the office instead of actual vacations with all your corporate access disabled.

These types of jobs have 4+ weeks of vacation anyway.

Has this changed recently? My offer from AWS came with 2 weeks of vacation, non-negotiable, and was part of why I rejected it.

Wow, that is very poor. I don’t know many Amazon people though, but I have read they are stingy. Although, I assumed 3 weeks of vacation was a minimum for white collar employees, especially in finance/law/engineering. I got 3 weeks when I came out of college in mid 2000s.

It grows up to a maximum of 4 weeks with seniority

Nothing to do with being picky. It's just about people having different priorities.

Why are you asserting people are giving up anything? I got a pay raise when I quit my in office job.

Do you really mean "give up" here? You're strongly implying that you're not in America, so there's a decent chance English is not your first language, so maybe you don't mean "give up" in the way it usually means in English.

To be explicit, there's nothing being sacrificed. People leaving their jobs because they don't want to go to an office are finding new jobs that pay the same amount or even more. They're not giving up anything.

American programmers are mercenaries, capitalist minded workers, that have access to a digital hive mind that not many other professions can fully access. We hold a lot more power than I think we realize.

Europeans work to live. Americas live to work.

Probably worth mentioning that you aren’t safe if you hide out in some low-paying European job. Sooner or later the US/Chinese platform companies are going to come and eat your boss’ lunch

So you may as well come over and get a share of the spoils

Easier said than done...

You should stop being a crab in a bucket, and go try to improve your own situation instead of being unhappy that others have done so in their own lives.

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