Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

32 pointsmattm43 comments

I know previously on HN I had read of people who had transitioned out of programming into other work. I can't find the thread now though.

I am considering doing this. I have some health issues and I think sitting at a computer too much is leading to it. I've tried taking breaks from programming in the past and I usually end up missing it so I'm sure I still would continue programming as a hobby, however, I want to look into what other jobs a programmer might be good at that doesn't require sitting at a computer for so long.

Has anyone else switched from programming to another career? What other types of jobs would be good for a programmer?

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I worked at a building site for a year in a remote place. That was non-profit actually (I also didn't have to spend money for being there) - building a meditation center with friends, but it was great time of my life. I got healthy and had a change to just think of some ideas without rush. I returned to the business with savings somewhat reduced , but with new energy to do stuff.

I think with some courage any physical job will do (edit: the one actually curing not worsening your health problems), because as hackers we learn to not give up and not be distracted by failures. Thus, I'd choose an occupation usually done in a nice healthy environment - like carpentry.

Of course, you will start from a zero level and will earn funny small amount of bucks. But I guess it's not the point (and you will probably don't need much, assuming you don't have a family dependent on you).

I really think physical working is so underrated. It builds your constitution slowly but in a way that cannot be achieved in a gym, because it happens in a natural way, not artificially.

> It builds your constitution slowly but in a way that cannot be achieved in a gym, because it happens in a natural way, not artificially.

That has an appealing ring to it but could you be more specific? What's a concrete physical task that could not be accomplished by a well-rounded exerciser? I'm not talking about Mr Biceps Curl and his good friend Mr Triceps Kickback but someone who does a mix of pulling sleds, carrying sandbags, flipping tires, squatting and deadlifting, snatching and clean & jerking barbells, doing muscle-ups, iron crosses, front and back levers on the bars and rings, and whatever else you might include in a varied exercise regimen.

Yeah well, when repeating exercises you're becoming good at... the exercises! ;) But not much more.. (OK, I'm simplifying a bit, you do a favor to your body and that will benefit you; but I'd aim for a broader point of view).

By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations. I don't know if something like "muscle memory" has a proper scientific background, but I strongly believe there's something in it. You have to focus, you have to be careful, do things in the right moment, be aware what's going on around, have some introspection of your strength - what you can do and what can't. Whether it is laying concrete or making a wooden roof, the kind of awareness needed is pretty much similar. Plus you spend a lots of time in the fresh air inevitably (at the building site there's no building yet, right? :) which is IMO crucial.

From what I saw the most rewarding physical job I can imagine is to help someone with the carpentry, esp. making roofs. The wood is so beautiful.

There's also one feature of physical work I'm personally very fond of: you usually see direct effects of what you've done very quickly. This is in a big contrast to modern coding, where there are so many layers of abstraction and inter-dependency, we sometimes build stuff months and to the very end we don't know if it really succeeded or not. I have a private theory that instant feedback is very good for psyche.

> By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations

You mean like most competitive sports in existence?

Your comparison is also overlooking the physical and mental aspects that are missing in everyday physical work. What you have to become both mentally and physically to deadlift 600 pounds or snatch 250 pounds cannot be emulated. It's a process that takes years and requires constantly overcoming your own fears and perceived limits. When you step under the bar and walk it out in preparation for a heavy back squat, the weight wants to drive you into the floor and you are struggling to even keep yourself standing. But now you have to squat all the way down and all the way back up, for several repetitions multiplied across several sets. That's one exercise for one day. You now have to do that several times a week, for years.

Hey.. physical working is not lifting heavy stuff all the day, you know... esp. not when doing carpentry which I explicitly recommended. Your physical effort is kinda split into small chunks, you do different things! It's hardly like a competitive sport, where you do the same small closed set of things for, say, two hours, without interruption.

Please also consider that sports, while wonderful, are still somewhat artificial activity. It's not what you do to get things done, it's just some extra stuff.

Crossfit much? :)

I think what he's talking about is the subtle differences between working out and having a job where you're always physically moving. It's the difference between "working out" and "having a healthy lifestyle."

A bunch of the people I went to school with as a young kid are now carpenters, bricklayers, mechanics, etc. A few are quite fit but that's because they're active outside of work. Most of them have big pot bellies, eat like shit, drink too much and are overall not what you'd call healthy. The idea that having a physically-oriented job where you're working outside much of the time tends to lead to a healthy body and lifestyle is one I'd dispute. If you're some sort of mythic backwoods ascetic who hunts his own food and builds his own dwelling then sure, but that's only a viable path for the most extreme and committed.

I'm not telling about mythics, it's a real life. I don't want to make a system of beliefs here; I responded with an example of experience I lived through.

Of course all depends on the people involved, so carefully choose who you work with, what they respect, how they talk about different things, how they relate to the world, do they love what they do or not. This is important in any activity I guess :)

I was working with German carpenters. They are very disciplined. They were not extremely committed, they just knew what they like to do and they did it in a most sane way. I'm sure you have people like that in the US. It's the kind of mentality which founded US, as far as I can imagine.

Yes, "having a healthy lifestyle" means "working out" is something you do just by going through your day and without having to consciously think about it.

I think this TED talk is relavent: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_buettner_how_to_live_t...

How about doing it for ~8 hrs a day?

Another really fantastic way to get healthy is to own a horse, and take care of feeding it, schlepping hay bales, cleaning it, cleaning tack, riding, the whole bit.

There's other animals, but not any I can think of that demand the physical activity that a horse does.

Do the health issues stem from being in front of a computer, or sitting at the computer?

Even if you transition over to a career as a bike messenger[1], the odds are pretty good that an alternative career will require you to spend a significant amount of time sitting, either in conference rooms or in front of a computer.

Although I have yet to take the plunge, I hear nothing but good things from people who have transitioned to standing desks (one example: http://lifehacker.com/5735528/why-and-how-i-switched-to-a-st...).

[1] I'm sure sitting on a bike is better for you than sitting on a chair, discounting potential concerns like being run over by a car.

> I'm sure sitting on a bike is better for you than sitting on a chair

Bike seats are pretty hard on penises, though. Google "penis and bike seats" for a ton of articles (including some interesting specialty bike seats to alleviate the problems).

I will let others give you health advice. Just remember that nobody else will take care of yourself except for you. That said, here are some areas I have seen ex-programmers succeed:

- Finance - May require another degree but it's an easy transition. The math shouldn't be too hard. It can be in the treasury dept, risk, anything with modeling.

- Marketing analysis - you would be surprised how much Math is involved in getting a tube of Crest to your cabinet.

- Teaching - most cs folks know enough math to teach it. Many states are so desperate for math teachers that they don't require an education degree.

In the end, don't worry. Programming is one of the hardest intellectual tasks out there. Other fields will seem easy in comparison.

Both Finance and Marketing Analysis will still probably need you to sit at a desk.

Being a teacher would probably be better from a "not-sitting" point of view.

True. Very few thinking jobs don't require desk time, and based on the little we've read, thinking is one thing we can infer from the original post.

Some programmers migrate to Sales and other field support jobs, but it's a bigger stretch on skills. Or more precisely - they require certain skills at a high level that aren't as required in programming.

Anything other than superficial "Check out this field" will take more than a couple high level posts. Shoot an email address, and I'm happy to discuss more in depth.

The most obvious advice is to choose from the infinite careers that leverage a technical background: project manager, business analyst, business development, sales, and anything else further in the leadership side of a technology company.

That is actually a natural progression for a lot of people in our field. I, personally, don't want to be a developer when I am 35, and I am already being tasked with more and more of the duties of the roles I mentioned above, and I like it. Have you been tasked with of the duties of other roles that are less development-oriented? Did you like it?

If your sole reason for wanting to switch really is your health issues, find out what professions leverage your previous technical knowledge, and further refine that list depending on which roles will work with your health issues. On a side note, it seems that most professional careers these days require that you sit a computer for long periods of times: lawyers, engineers of all fields, accountants, and finance professionals, etc. So keep that in mind.

Ultimately, you get one body, so make your health your first priority. And you only get one life so make sure you're doing what you want to do. Good luck.

I am adding this because it could be something you havent considered but I think you should. Do you love the outdoors?

Essentially tours/activites/travel type of jobs.

1. Hiking tour guide. 2. Give Kiteboarding lessons. 3. Scuba instructor. 4. Travel Writer who goes to different points of the earth and writes about them. 5. Gym trainer. 6. Heli Ski tour operator.

These might seem out there and the pay will be lousy - but I know quite a few kiteboarding instructors and they are some of the fittest and happiest people I have ever known. I'm eventually going to end up like this I think - right after I try founding a few startups. I recently quit my job to start my own startup. (Still in the cycle of customer development).

They have happiness in their soul except when theres no wind and no waves then they become painful to hang around :). But with respect to their health - I dont think I've seen a healthier bunch.

Re: Health Issues

Assuming they are RSI related:

I highly recommend "Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Strain Injuries" by Sharon Butler

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240393

RSI cannot be cured but it can be managed. For those of you who are fortunate to be able to take keyboard input for granted, please be wary of any soreness or minor pain. Over time, pain and soreness can become chronic. The bright side is dealing with RSI forces you to realize that you cannot take your career for granted; it gives you perspective.

Good luck! Be wary of magic solutions, something may not work for you.

Changing careers is not as black and white as most careers require significant computer work. You cannot escape computers in this modern age. Get the best help that you can, surgery is not a magic cure

OP here - my noprocast settings wouldn't have allowed me to post until tomorrow.

I have a little RSI but I have taken steps so that it doesn't bother me anymore (switching to Dvorak layout was probably the best move).

Actually, my health problems are with my skin. When I'm sitting at a computer, my skin seems to get itchy - maybe there isn't enough blood circulating or my posture is too stressful.

A couple other people mentioned standing desks. I tried a make-shift one for a couple days but didn't really like it. I might give it another try though.

You might want to get your vision checked, adjust your screen resolution, color balance your monitor, and try and find a healthy relaxed posture.

Mine is feet resting on my lower desk frame taking the weight of the back of my thighs, with my back supported by the chair, i.e. not unsupported.

This is a big change in posture from how I used to be, and much less stressful.

I'm getting into my mid-40's and I'm still pulling 4 hour programming sessions at night with not much but some stiff legs and tiredness to show.

Also, if you have dry itchy skin, get a RadioShack temperature and humidity device and if the air's too dry, try a humidifier.

My assumption is that you haven't consult any doctor yet for your problem. And if i am right, please go ahead and consult any good skin doctor and identify the root cause of your skin itching before thinking of switching the career.

I have been to doctors and a lot of them have told me "We don't know the cause" and "There is no cure for it". It leaves me a little disenfranchised at the medical system. But the keyword "good" skin doctor may be what I need to find. Thanks.

It's worrisome you would ask a bunch of strangers what profession you should take up. We don't know you from Moses. We don't know if you like crossword puzzles, make your own maple syrup, or have a lisp. You need to write out a list of what you love to do then explore the possibilities.

For what it's worth, here is what I suggest: switch to a stand up desk for any computing tasks. I cobbled together an ugly ad hoc one and I could never go back.

Also, while you deliberate over what your new profession will be, get a job in retail or sales. The pay will suck but you'll be on your feet and interacting with human beings.

I wish you success!

OP here.

I don't see why it's worrisome. This is just one place I am asking for advice. I don't see why people on the Internet assume you will only be asking strangers. This is more of a way to get ideas. If someone says "taxi driver" I'm not going to go out and immediately become a taxi driver.

It's tough to think of jobs that don't require being in front of a computer nowadays. One time we were discussing the olden days of computers and it came up that I asked "What did people do for work before computers?" Then everyone went silent - "Yeah, how did people work before computers?" It's amazing how ubiquitous they have become in such a short time frame.

I've tried the standing desk before for a couple days but didn't really like it. I may try giving it another shot.

  I've tried the standing desk before for a couple days but
  didn't really like it. I may try giving it another shot.

Remember to alternate between sitting and standing. If you can't get a motorized standing desk, get a tall task chair to accompany a stationary standing desk.

Also, get a footrest to use while standing.

Oh heck, give it another shot. I found it awkward and tiring on the legs for about two weeks. Give yourself at least that amount of time.

You know that he reads Hacker News. This piece of information alone tells me a whole lot about a person.

How about personal trainer? Definitely get to stay away from the computer and it's a highly technical profession (if you choose to be highly informed about the body and nutrition) so it should still satisfy the engineer/programmer in you.

I don't think personal trainers should get into the nutrition business. That's what registered dieticians and certified nutritionists are for.

I've been thinking about whether photography could ever be my day job; it appeals to the same obsessive/perfectionist traits that coding uses in me. I think you'd have to be wealthy already to pull it off, though..

The problem with any "art-related" work is that it's not something practical / useful / necessary for anyone. People need programs, but no one needs photos, most often they want one, but could do perfectly without it. (There are some photos that people will really need done, but that's the worst kind of work, and not really profitable, so I assume you that's not what you want to do.)

If you are someone who makes stuff people want, but don't really need you'll be hit much worse by budget cuts, recessions etc. because your work is one they can do without easily.

I draw (and do some design stuff). I get some money out of this once in a while, but it's not much. I know that I could get more out of it if I tried harder. But that wouldn't mean doing more of what I like doing, I'd have to take work that I enjoy much less than programming. And I'd probably have trouble making ends meet, even if I was successful It'd wouldn't be a very dependable source of income.

I think international photojournalism is practical/useful, and sometimes even world-changing if you can get the right shot. Quite the opposite of a computer day job, and probably not the sort of thing you want to try and juggle with having a family..

> international photojournalism is practical/useful

True, I was looking for a right word, but couldn't find it.

What I meant was that people and businesses need programmers. For most flavors of 'programmer' the demand is quite stable, and it isn't going away because "the economy is bad!". If you are e.g. a freelance webdeveloper (at least a reasonably good one) you can be sure that in the next year demand for your work will be comparable to this year's.

On the other hand, AFAICT demand for photographs is much more volatile (at least for most kinds of photographs), and I think it's because people find it much easier to do without them than without webpages when they need to cut something. I know it works this way for artwork. I might be wrong, just sayin'.

You'd have to be wealthy to be a photographer who wasn't concerned with making ends meet, but otherwise I doubt it.

I retrained to be a Shiatsu therapist (Japanese acupressure massage). It was a three year part time course (here in the UK) and I had every intention of quitting the IT world. Once I had finished the course though, my outlook had changed (partially because of the course - the theory behind Shiatsu is based on theory behind acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine which is somewhat different to the more Western concepts I was brought up with). Anyway, now I do both - I code and I do Shiatsu.

Might look into real estate and buying trustee sales at the courthouse steps and reselling for a profit. It usually takes a team of people. You could probably find some initial investors. It needs some computer work, but you'll be mostly running around seeing houses and overseeing rehabs. Money is decent.

No idea, but it seems like most jobs these days require sitting in front of a computer all day. Five years ago I might have suggested going the Office Space route and taking up construction work but obviously that's not such a hot idea right now.

There was a reddit AMA a while back from a guy who went from programming to being a lumberjack.

I guess that might also be affected by real estate prices.

Construction is a very local thing. Where I am for example, there are more roadwork projects and construction projects (apartments/residential and commercial) going on right now than I can ever remember seeing.

The most common advice you will receive in my place, if this question is asked, is to become a teacher at a High School. Depending on where you are from, this may not be a bad choice.

If health is your true concern, then lookinto making yourself a healthier office. Check out spolsky's offices for instance -- much healthier than typical

I've been pondering similar ideas, and my sister (Masters in odd textiles-related field) has been searching for jobs recently, so we discussed this. Our ideas:

* Electrician and especially low-voltage electrician. Find someone to take you on first, then get into the apprenticeship program. You get paid while you learn. Low-voltage sounds especially interesting, since it's things like wiring up alarm system, and less risk of electrocuting yourself. Wiring up alarm systems sounds more hacker-ish than any paid programming job I've had. Pretty much all electrician work involves a significant amount of problem solving.

* Welding. In particular, deep sea welding, sounds... interesting. It has potential for a very good salary, though it will involve significant risk management and probably a lot of time spent away from home and family.

* Trucking. It sounds less appealing with modern trucking organizations, but if you like driving, it might be doable. Years ago, I recall reading about a British IT guy that switched to trucking who absolutely loved it.

* Physical trainer. This one is probably great if computer-related physical issues have created a passion for fitness in you. I suspect these careers will be even harder going forward, if the economy continues to drag.

* Accounting, lawyering. These exacerbate the same physical issues. Lawyering is pretty dead now, what with way too many graduates.

* Teaching. You can try to teach English overseas to dabble in it and see if you like it.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I've had a few drinks. ;-)

My basic goal with an alternate career is to get exposure to new business opportunities. For example, something seemingly silly like working at a prison might allow you insight into a whole new industry, where you could write niche software and potentially earn a lot of income. Nothing will ever make me stop thinking, "aha! I could solve that with some code..."

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