Comment by mildmotive | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mildmotive | Hacker News Reader

There was this case where Pornhub hosted a lot of rape footage of teenagers[1]. Victims came forward, they testified of their abuse and said that they tried very hard to remove videos involving their sexual assault from the platform. They were however unable to successfully do so because not only were Pornhub careless and unresponsive, the videos would shortly after being removed (if they ever were) resurface on the same platform. A petition was launched and signed by circa 2 million people (including myself). Pornhub was brought to court[2] and found themselves forced to remove any material that they could not verify was consensual. Millions of videos ended up getting purged[3]. Visa refused to handle payments from them as a result of what had happened[4].

What Pornhub and by extension its mother company MindGeek has done is obviously beyond despicable. After myself knowing the context of some of the services that these payment processors have refused to work with (particularly in the “adult” industry), I would never call what they are doing censorship. I’m instead happy that someone with authority is stepping up. Could this authority be abused? Sure. Is the aforementioned an example of abuse of authority? Absolutely not. It’s an example of when people in authority are doing their job. I don’t want to see anyone’s mother, sister or daughter getting raped and have their rape being filmed for the sexual gratification of millions of viewers online. Seeing Visa and others do the right thing in this case is a breath of fresh air.

[1] https://traffickinghubpetition.com/

[2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=b4auDHtorGM

[3] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/pornhub-purges-a...

[4] https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/14/business/mastercard-visa-...

MindGeek could obviously have done more. But i don't think you are being transparent about who promoted and ran that petition.

It was heavily promoted by Exodus Cry, an organisation that seeks to completely ban porn, strip clubs and any type of sex work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Cry

This whole thing has lead to a lot unintended consequences that has significantly hurt, or impacted sex workers negatively, such as the MasterCard changes that made Onlyfans try and get rid of sexual content.

> I’m instead happy that someone with authority is stepping up.

Their authority is just rule by fiat. They are not answerable to the people like an institution in a democracy.

What Mastercard/Visa are doing is not a proper way to run a country, let alone the world.

Bullshit. It's pretty common for young women to consent to do porn and then after the fact (weeks, months, years later) decide that they shouldn't have. If you sign a contract, you've signed a contract and need to abide by it. I'm of course against non-consensual stuff, but don't cry "I was a victim" later on because you've had a change of heart.

The other unfortunate reality of sex work is that women "busted" by law enforcement are of course going to claim their trafficked when it gets them out of a legal bind.

The root cause of all this a puritanical western society using the power of the state to impose their morals on others. What consenting adults do among themselves, even if for compensation, is nobodies business besides those involved ... and CERTAINLY shouldn't be illegal. So many of us are still conflating sex work with "human trafficking" ... and are party to the PERCEIVED problem by not understanding it can be legitimate work.

> Bullshit. It's pretty common for young women to consent to do porn and then after the fact (weeks, months, years later) decide that they shouldn't have.

Women who consent is out of topic. Although how much some of this consent is meaningful is another can of worms.

> If you sign a contract, you've signed a contract and need to abide by it. I'm of course against non-consensual stuff, but don't cry "I was a victim" later on because you've had a change of heart.

So what kind of evidence do you need that a woman has been raped? Can there be such evidence that can’t be disputed by you or someone else? Can we ever say that a woman has been raped?

I’m seriously curious how you’re reasoning here.

> The root cause of all this a puritanical western society using the power of the state to impose their morals on others.

The West is hardly puritanical, porn and prostitution in general are large industries. The laws are not puritanical, Pornhub got a slap on the wrist relative to what they’ve done. Maybe it’s too puritanical for you, I don’t know.

> So many of us are still conflating sex work with "human trafficking"

That’s a straw-man. It can be argued that an increase in prostitution is positively correlated with an increase in sex trafficking. But that’s not like saying that they are one and the same, no one here is arguing that they are.

Sounds like too much fuss for a what was a tiny amount of videos,and an antiporn crusade started by an NYTimes columnist. Great for the anti porn crusaders i guess but this is the kind of thing that urges people to do away with the dystopian fiat money system. Looking forward to see them suing facebook which hosts far more CP

Don't forget that in this case 2 million people signed a petition saying what's happening on the platform is non consensual, AND they got taken to court and lost.

That is the legal system working. Taking payments away for someone who has lost in the legal system, on the censorship scale is probably more acceptable even to someone who's very pro free speech.

It's another thing when visa and mastercard ban forums or subscriptions for people who are voicing their personal political opinions. That becomes a slippery slope very quickly. What court or jurisdiction or due process to visa and mastercard have to decide what is acceptable or not? Is being anti immigration acceptable, or is that racist? What about anti illegal immigration? What about feminists worried about trans rights? What about covid vaccinations? Youtube has blanket banned pro and anti vaccination content. Should mastercard follow? What about anti climate change discussion? What about anti green tax discussion, does that count as anti climate change?

We are on this slippery slope already IMO. And it's not looking very good good for free speech.

Or for something actually happening, how about people accused of "critical race theory" or endorsing BDS? These are prohibitions that are entering state law - so are these more acceptable for people who are "very pro free speech?"

Right-wing talk about free speech usually just sounds like people want to make being a right-wing bigot a protected class. I've heard a reasonable argument that it's really just a largely unrecognized ethnic group of Scots-Irish evangelicals. From that point of view, it makes a little sense.

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