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Comment by nyokodo | Hacker News Reader

One of the most insidious and underrated evils in our society is lying. Lying comes in many forms such as: refusing to be honest about our true motivations; contriving justifications for double standards towards different groups; knowingly misrepresenting the truth to avoid an opposing side racking up political points; saying what we know isn’t true because it’s socially/politically easier; even extreme euphemisms; etc.

The effects of all this is distrust, disunity, isolation, division. It’s poison to causes, countries, and relationships. Practiced liars eventually can’t even see reality at all, and can’t fix their problems because they can’t see them.

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"Above all, do not lie to yourself. A man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point where he does not discern any truth either in himself or anywhere around him, and thus falls into disrespect towards himself and others. Not respecting anyone, he ceases to love, and having no love, he gives himself up to the passions and coarse pleasures..."

- Brothers Karamzov, Fyodor Dostoevsky

This is at least partially biological. We are competitive because our survival depends on it, and deception is of utmost value in a competitive environment. See all of Capitalism, for example.

> This is at least partially biological

This is good context but isn’t a justification. You didn’t say it was but I wanted to emphasize that a biological reason isn’t a moral justification.

> deception is of utmost value in a competitive environment

All lying is deception, but not all deception is lying in the sense I intended. I make the distinction because camouflage, wood patterned linoleum, or mental reservation (outside oaths and other serious matters) are all forms of deception but are not lies.

> See all of Capitalism, for example

Don’t conflate capitalism with Marketing! It isn’t unfair to characterize marketing as weaponized lying. Selling my beets at the farmers market is capitalism but is not lying.

I apologize, but it's clear to me from your pointed responses that you have no idea what you're talking about.

>Selling my beets at the farmers market is capitalism

No. It is not. People have been selling their wares at markets for thousands of years. Capitalism has only been around for about 500 years.

Capitalism is a system of economics where the means of production (Capital Goods) are owned privately by the owning class (The Capitalist). It's a relationship between the owner class, and the worker class. Owning the farm and employing workers would be Capitalist. Selling wares to a market is just commerce/trading.

>We are competitive because our survival depends on it

Says who? Our survival, as does the survival of almost all life, actually depends on Cooperation. I'd highly recommend checking out the book Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution by Pyotr Kropotkin. You can find it for free online (legally, its public domain) https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/4341 .

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