California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers
latimes.com
latimes.com
Charging wasn't too bad at first one battery for the front yard and one for the back. But then one battery would not charge as much or run for as long as when new. The store had moved on to new models so I couldnt buy a battery in store. Even if I could it was expensive $100, the mower cost $250. Online even the manufacturer seemed to have moved on and not have the battery type. But if it did price plus shipping and tax would be high.
It cut grass OK but if it was too long it would eat up the battery or stall. The grass catcher bag would also require more from the battery.
One day at three years old thw mower just quit. The good battery is OK so it must be the mower motor.
I looked at electric but the new ones are $500 they took a big jump in price. I bought a new gas mower.
Milwaukee’s M18 mower is coming out next year and I’ll be getting that.
In most of these types of articles, no one mentions the problems that batteries are going to cause... (environment and convenience)
I wish they'd have mandatory battery shapes and standards. I think that would go a long way towards preventing death-by-unsupported-batteries.
My parents live multiple hours north of the bay in the woods along the border of Jackson state forest and rely on their generator a few times a year. Their property is heavily wooded (lots of coastal redwoods) and on the north facing side of a mountain (it’s in the shade most of the day for most of the year), making both home solar and wind impractical.
With PG&E doing power cuts, they need some way to power the fridge, furnace, and sump pump. They had their power cut for two weeks at the beginning of this year because of a winter storm, and had to run the generator a bunch. It’s one thing to have backup batteries to cover a day or two without power, but they’d need half a megawatt hour of batteries to cover the multiple week outages they’ve already experienced.
It’s one thing to convert equipment from gas to electric where it makes sense, a wholesale ban on fuel powered equipment regardless of the situation is a bit asinine.
The portable generator my parents have has hookups to connect it to the main breaker panel of your house. The only thing it lacks is autostart on power failure.
These can be made to be far quieter than the engine strapped to a human's back. A truck-bound genset can weigh 2000lbs+ no problem, which means it can house the same engine you would see in a honda civic, along with all of the same emissions and noise control devices.
Many new work trucks (F150 electric-only, for instance) output 240v, which would be more than enough to run a wide range of yard equipment (at the same time).
Alternatively, I'll agree that my yard guys can plug into my outside power outlets when they are doing the yard. I'll even let them plug in for my neighbor's yard too, if its more convenient for them. This level of intermittent use is negligible on someone's bill.
Hopefully some time after you have a polite discussion with them about it.
Not always feasible. Imagine this as if it were a recurring weekly thing manifesting itself in all manner of different activities as well. At this point its probably easier to just put the house up for sale and move.
Good move, IMO. Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Lawn care professionals will have to make a moderate investment in batteries up front, but even those are becoming more affordable and easier to charge on the go.
The combination of multi-battery chargers and vehicles with built-in AC inverters (new electric F-150 is brilliant) means the batteries can even be charged straight off of the truck, eliminating the need to carry gasoline around or even stop at gas stations at all.
Electrics, on the other hand, could easily have independent front and rear motors, if not each wheel; an independent ramping and traction control system from the main motor -- and even an isolated electrical system (via capacitor) such that grass load and wheel speed are indepedent.
But for instance, the town here doesn't have slopes, which is a common thing, for developed land to have been flattened out.
Have you used any? The batteries last 100x less than the tiny amount of petrol you pour into. You have to recharge 3x just to mow the whole (moderately sized) lawn. Hopefully newer models are better, but given the slow progress of car batteries, I doubt they're much better.
They've come a long way in the past few years. If your only experience is from several years ago then it's nothing like modern tools. Definitely don't have to recharge to mow an entire lawn, or even recharge every week.
I expect they'll progress even more in the next few years before this law goes into effect.
Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions.
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-pollution...
> In the early 2020s, however, total smog-forming emissions from small engines are projected to exceed those from passenger cars in the South Coast Air Basin because passenger car emissions will continue to decrease. By 2031, small engine emissions will be more than twice those from passenger cars.
And from the bill itself (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...):
>In 2020, California daily NOx and ROG emissions from SORE were higher than emissions from light-duty passenger cars. SORE emitted an average of 16.8 tons per day of NOx and 125 tons per day of ROG. Without further regulatory action, those emission levels are expected to increase with increasing numbers of SORE in California. Regulations of emissions from SORE have not been as stringent as regulations of other engines, and one hour of operation of a commercial leaf blower can emit as much ROG plus NOx as driving 1,100 miles in a new passenger vehicle.
And how about planes, generation plants, etc?
As for airplanes, power plants and other large-scale users of fossil fuels: like cars and unlike gas-powered lawn tools, they tend to more carefully manage combustion to burn cleaner, and power plants can treat exhaust (like cars do with catalytic converters). So those sources are cleaner per gallon of fuel than a gas-powered leaf blower, and they don't exhaust quite as close to living, breathing people.
"So those sources are cleaner per gallon of fuel than a gas-powered leaf blower, and they don't exhaust quite as close to living, breathing people."
Per gallon. Lawn equipment is is a tiny fraction compared to these others. Airports tend to be in cities, power plants tend to be close to population centers, most people have a road in front of their house... sounds like those are close to people, output more overall, and are used more frequently than once every week or two.
It does. If you don't believe the source, then take that up with CARB. But don't act like information provided by a government regulator is hearsay.
(Also, I've never seen a catalytic converter on a four-stroke lawn mower.)
No reason they can't put catalytic converters on.
If we really want to be green, then why not require reel mowers?
The cost of the catalytic converter itself, plus the advanced ECU necessary to make it work properly would make gas-powered lawn mowers more expensive than an electric plus a pile of spare batteries.
> If we really want to be green, then why not require reel mowers?
Grow up.
Responses like this violate the rules for the site and undermine HN as a place of discussion. I would love to hear a real argument.
"The cost of the catalytic converter itself, plus the advanced ECU necessary to make it work properly would make gas-powered lawn mowers more expensive than an electric plus a pile of spare batteries."
The ECU is a joke, and not a necessary part of using a catalytic converter. You can run a pi zero or audrino as an ECU.
The catalytic converter would be more expensive than not having one, but not that expensive. You might be assuming they would cost the same as one for a car, but they would be drastically scaled down. You can find new catalytic converters for small cars for under $100.
You don't deserve a real argument. "Why not require reel mowers?" isn't a serious question. Figuring out an answer takes only a few moments of thought, or reading the first section of the law in question, wherein the legislature lays out the rationale and justification for the regulation. (The whole law is just over 600 words, so reading it is quick and easy.) The question is just a cheap rhetorical trick.
If you actually have trouble coming up with an answer to that question, or if you think banning all forms of powered mowers would actually be a sensible public policy, then you're welcome to share your thoughts on the matter in more detail. Until then, there's no reason for anyone to take such a silly and provocative question at face value.
That's not rhetoric. It's a real question. Reel mowers don't produce emissions, don't require batteries which harm the environment, don't require electricity to be generated and transmitted, don't require copper or electronics, and they force people to get exercise. The arguments here have been that batteries are good enough for most lawns because most lawns are small. If most lawns are small, then reel mowers are a suitable replacement as well. If it was really about the environment and people's health, then they should be pushing reel mowers.
Yes, there are potential benefits to your Modest Proposal. But none of them provide any further improvement to the specific harms that the law in question explicitly seeks to reduce. Instead, you ignore those stated objectives and pretend that the law has (or should have) much broader goals, so that you can propose a much more radical alternative. And you haven't tried to explain how your proposal would be a reasonable tradeoff given its obvious and considerable downsides. You've also thrown in a bit of a straw-man ("If most lawns are small, then reel mowers are a suitable replacement as well"). I'm still not seeing a reason to take you seriously.
(In particular, there is a usecase for artificially made fuel from air-captured CO2 - superior energy density and durability compared to batteries.)
This also ignores the used market. Mine was used for $30.
They will easily go 20 years without much maintenance. Nobody I know buying $180 mowers gets more than a few years out of them and they are off to the landfill.
If your argument is that a decent mower can go 20 years, then that excludes battery powered ones. You'll need to replace the batteries.
Get a bunch of long extensions cords on those crank reels and put em in the back of the truck. Batteries are a huge waste of money/time/environment if a corded tool will do the job. You would probably still keep a few cordless on the work truck just in case you need to get to some place far away or high up (e.g. the chainsaw example).
Many people have been left trapped at home, working remotely as a result of Covid. A noisy machine, such as a gas-powered leaf blower, can disrupt a peaceful neighborhood day. Imagine your neighbor to your left mowing the lawn at 8 a.m., then neighbor to your right at 9 a.m., then another cross the street started at 10 a.m., and on and on.. It made our already dismal lockdown, stay-at-home life even more despised!
We are in dire need of much quieter neighborhood leaf blower.
Some people seemingly like living in anarchy. Which may seem "nice" until it tramples you.
There is no need to close the bars. There has always been a need to correct bothersome and damaging behaviour, obviously, even when we keep experiences open. Ever heard of moderation? Self control? The appellative of 'Mister' (master over what)? Of the values of consciousness and awareness?
It's called a broom.
In general, to the other contributions which could have been sarcastic: noise is harmful. Many people do not even perceive it, but that is because numbness has become a value (though perception is) - and numbness will reveal its non-efficacy as an armour the moment one's nerves will be worn out enough. I will repeat: noise is something some people sneer at - until they break. So, there has to be a proportionate justification to be noisy.
«The day will come when man will have to fight noise as inexorably as cholera and the plague»
~~ Robert Koch
Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place.
As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas...
On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas...
You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public transport and so forth.
Yet they go after "wind blower".
It baffles me.
this kind of law is straight up distraction. energy production and transportation (and industry after that) are where we’ll have actual, material impact, and where our sole focus should be in this regard.
Corporations have lobbists to ensure that they will not be out of pocket as people transition to 'green energy' - in fact they hope that this will be a new growth opportunity.
The cost of new equipment is put on the consumer. The companies selling the (v. expensive) products, have a captive market.
Why not transition this out slowly?
This method forces people to spend a large amount to complete a task that they can do with their existing equipment.
The law doesn't affect existing equipment.
Power conversion inefficiency, distribution matrix maintenance, demand pressure on local energy price, adding toxic batteries and more complex machines to the system, not accounted for.
By definition, people use generators when there’s no source of mains power, whether that’s during a power outage or needing to use electric devices in a remote area, job site, etc. I don’t see how requiring such things to work on battery power (from where would they charge their batteries?) would be viable in any way.
That said, I wish they’d consider the use of alternative fuels (like propane), particularly for things like generators and larger equipment like riding mowers. Most 4-stroke engines can easily run on propane and dual-fuel devices like generators are already commonly available. Propane burns very cleanly, efficiently, is inexpensive, widely available, easy to store, and doesn’t go stale like gasoline.
They for hours on end and kick up tons of dust for people with asma. With zero actual before other than a pretty looking patch of concrete
They should just be banned in all forms as they serve very little positive with much larger negatives
I didn’t find that at all adequate to the task.
It’s worth every penny to have someone else do the work.
Reading a little further this is a comprehensive ban on an engine class…I wonder if the CA legislature understands that small engine chainsaws are an essential tool in wildland firefighting?
In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.
Nothing could possibly go wrong.
Also, the batteries are swappable. They’ll charge spares wherever they can, often on site where they can find an outlet.
All of my yard tools, including my lawnmower, are electric. For reasons of both cost and power, I went with corded rather than battery powered. Battery tech is constantly improving and maybe at some point it will get to the point where it is viable for a yard like mine but for people who are doing a large number of properties per day, it's going to be quite a while.
Seems like the better interim solution would be making the small engines used by these tools emit less. This would of course increase the complexity and cost but seems like a better tradeoff than extension cords with large voltage drops, diesel generators, or lugging around half a dozen times more batteries than devices.
Gas powered electric generators
> With an electric motor mounted on each of its axles, the vehicle will offer more torque — in effect, faster acceleration — than any previous F-150 and will be capable of towing up to 10,000 pounds. Its battery pack can power a home for about three days during an outage, according to Ford. For contractors and other commercial truck users, the Lightning will be able to power electric saws, tools and lighting, potentially replacing or reducing the need for generators at work sites. It has up to 11 power outlets.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/business/ford-electric-ve...
One big engine is cleaner, more efficient, and quieter than a bunch of small 2-stroke engines.
(Also, based on CARB's definition of "Small Off-Road Engines" which is what the law applies to, diesel generators of any size will not be affected.)
(Pigovian taxes would be better, ignoring implementation and administration costs, than a straight ban, but simple gas taxes either overcharge cars or undercharge tools like this, which are vastly worse per gallon of gas consumed.)
I certainly won't weap if the entire leaf blower industry flat out dies
Then, are you considering power converting inefficiencies, relying in a distribution matrix, burdening the local power production, maybe making prices go up, and adding toxic batteries that end up in a land fill ?
But for people money and beautiful grass is more important than the environment
Edit: Spelling
So all the private companies out there are still making everyone miserable at least once a week. Such obnoxious machines.
There are other problems with blowers - they’re generally bad for the soil, but I’ll take the small win.
But for people, beautiful grass is more important than the environment.
That's a lot of gear needing to be replaced, and in many cases, replaced with far less effective equipment.
I read the article. The ban goes into effect in 3 years. And there is a carve out for zero emission gas ones too.
Seems entirely reasonable. The state of corded and even cordless tools is pretty solid these days with lithium ion and 48V batteries etc.
Until recently, Tesla had its HQ in California, I asume the deals with local politicians still stand.
See incandescent light bulbs. Most people bought over LED before the ban. You can buy them from China still, but most people don’t. So in the end it wins without doing some kind of crazy enforcement,
My landscapers work 12 hour days. How would they charge a battery mower 10+ times? It’s fine for a homeowner but not so great for a pro