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Comment by Pxtl | Hacker News Reader

Yes you can get natural immunity from COVID. You can also get dead, or permanent brain or lung damage.

Get the shots.

Or you can get a heart defect from the shots. Or blood clots.

So there's no categorical "take the shot" or "dont take the shot". It's your personal risk profile that should be the deciding factor. Not some troll on the internet/tv telling you what to do.

This is just standard anti-vax bullshit.

Not an argument

Why? Please elaborate why you consider this bullshit. I mean making personal decisions based on personal risk is seldom considered "bullshit". Why is it bullshit in this case? Because the TV says so?

It’s bullshit because the risk for heart complications is higher if you get COVID than if you get the shot. This is simple math.

But those simple math calculations don’t factor in the chance of getting corona in the first place. 2 years in the pandemic and I only know 3 people who got corona.

People act as if it was 100% certain one would get corona.

So let's assume you know 10000 people. COVID risk of death is 1 in 100. The chance you'll be next and die is 1 per 1M. As mentioned above the chance of blood clots from the vaccines is about 1 per 40M.

The Delta variant is sufficiently contagious that all of us can expect to be exposed multiple times in our lives. Just like what typically happens with the other endemic coronaviruses.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

Only a subset of those infected will experience clinically significant symptoms. Probably more than 3 of your acquaintances have had it but didn't even know it, maybe just felt a little tired for a few days.

Because if you get needlessly infected, you are almost sure to infect others. You choices impact other people.

Framing it as a personal choice is selfish and disingenuous. It is no more personal choice than dumping toxic waste into a river or firing a gun in random direction in public.

There are people who legitimately can't get vaccinated for medical reasons - but those are rarely the ones using the personal choice argument, are they?

But vaccinated still spread the virus. So it’s just personal risk to not get vaccinated.

Yes, but if you catch covid and survive it, you should do the right thing and still get vaccinated against it, because that is more betterer, according to the the completely unbiased media that they happen to be injecting with cash while they otherwise circle the drain.

All known cases of post vaccine myocarditis were mild and did not lead to permanent damage.

Also, myocarditis can also be caused byviral infections. We don't know the exact numbers, because it is hard to diagnose myocarditis if the person is already sick with something else at the same time. However, there is the hypothesis that the risk might be the same for people who get a covid infection, or perhaps even higher.

The same thing also applies to blood clots.

> It's your personal risk profile that should be the deciding factor.

Health agencies all around the world all agree over this. The great benefits of vaccination outweigh the minuscle risks.

You are far more likely to get heart problems that stem from systemic inflammation from an infection like COVID than a vaccination. But you already knew that, you just choose to harp on an opposing viewpoint.

In literally billions of vaccines we have only thousands of side effect deaths.

On the other hand in hundreds of millions of Covid cases we have millions of deaths.

If the vaccine causes those symptoms, the actual virus will likely, too. And worse.

Heart issues occur at a rate of 1 in 49 million. AKA, you’re about 50x more likely to be hit by lightning at 1 in 1 million odds.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm

To turn this probability into dice rolls, roll 10d6, and look to get all 1’s.

It’s still not 0. So it’s an unnecessary risk.

So is walking out of your house. Driving a car. Taking public transportation.

So is living.

Is anyone seriously arguing both against the vaccine and pro infection?

People are just saying (and science confirms) that previously infected shouldn't be discriminated against or forced to vaccinate.

There have been literal COVID parties as anti-vaxxers try to get immunity the natural way.

The moral hazard of legitimizing natural immunity is very real. Yes the biological science shows that natural antibodies work well, but social science tells us what dumb people will do it that's supported as a solution.

The natural antibodies work well _if you get them_.

That need you to be infected badly enough your body created the long-term ones (so not complete asymptomatic), and also not badly enough you die or get long covid (which by the way some measure at 50 % infected having in some form - but it's hard to say especially since long covid is not well defined).

Which while might theoretically be true for individuals, it is too unreliable to make a policy of it.

EDIT: but yes, you're right, people (whether they are bad actors spreading misinformation willingly or stupid plague rats believing them) will catch on that and claim they don't need the vaccine then.

Just like they caught on "vaccinated people can still get covid!" - sure they can, it is just two orders of magnitude less likely.

There are a literally people with animals in their rectum. People do strange things. Your dubious moral hazard degrades by the day as more and more people cross the covid threshold with or without intention.

> The moral hazard of legitimizing natural immunity is very real.

It hasn’t for other vaccines/diseases. For example when I went back to grad school and didn’t have a shot record they they tested me for anitibodies instead of using more vaccines. I was low on MMR so got a booster but didn’t need varicella and various others. No big deal.

Or heart inflammation.

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