Ask HN: As a European, what should I expect working for an American company? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: As a European, what should I expect working for an American company?

I'm a western European software developer who is receiving offers from US companies, likely due to the recently increased acceptance of remote work.

Since I'm considering those offers, I'm curious about the differences in work culture. I'm particularly interested in the experiences of Europeans who have worked for American companies, and viceversa.

I'm asking in the broadest of senses, so anything goes, from benefits through work politics to dos and don'ts.

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I'm an American who has worked in both the US and Europe and noticed differences. Here's a few quick thoughts on working in the US:

- Do not talk about your salary. There are large disparities in income within the US and even within the same company for the same role, which is less common in Europe.

- Many American work environments have more of a hierarchy within the company, particularly in more corporate environments. US companies are often more stratified. Some to the degree of oil and water.

- As you already know, Americans value small talk more. They also tend to immerse more of their identity into their workplace. Avoid talking about politics. Opinions that are not left of center are essentially taboo to mention.

- A fraction of your co-workers will be on the prescription drug Adderall, or an equivalent, and you probably won't know. Adderall is common amongst those from upper middle class backgrounds. They often don't need it yet take it as a performance enhancer. Money matters more in the US, and there's more competition to get it.

- You will likely get less vacation. Not only that, you will be discouraged, though rarely explicitly, from taking it.

- Working in tech in the US can be much better than in Europe. You'll make more money. US tech companies, unlike say law or finance, do offer many benefits, and if you choose the right company you can work less than 40 hours a week. For example, I plan to quit my US tech job because the hours are from 9am to 6pm. If you have to show up before 10am and you're not paid a multiple of six figures it might be a bad deal. For tech, I'd prefer to work in the US.

Agree with most points except these two:

> - Many American work environments have more of a hierarchy within the company, particularly in more corporate environments. US companies are often more stratified. Some to the degree of oil and water.

I found this the opposite. If we have a spectrum from Flat <-----> Hierarchical structure, then I've found the following: USA <----- Germany -----> Japan, where Japan is the most Hierarchical.

> - You will likely get less vacation. Not only that, you will be discouraged, though rarely explicitly, from taking it.

True you do get less vacation but it is not true that you will be discouraged. May be if you work at IBM or GE, etc. Not here in Silicon Valley, not in most modern corporations that were founded in last 20 years. Vacation is tremendously encouraged in all companies I've worked for and every other engineer I know. I think this might be true if you're in a <100 employee startup (< 4 year old company and VC backed).

Spot on about politics and I prefer it that way. IMO politics, religion, activism, etc. is probably best to avoid at work.

May I add that inside the EU, the differences can be staggering? I worked in both German and French companies. The French ones were all much more hierarchically organised than the German ones. So much so that I started researching why, because from the outside, German culture seems to be more hierarchical than the French, but that's not true. In France, there is a cultural dogma for centralisation, exemplified by how they organise their country with Paris controlling everything. This way of thinking also is prevalent even in small companies: Every decisions flows top-down, there are simply no feedback channels bottom-up.

Sure, I narrowed it to Germany having dealt with a handful of German companies. I am sure there are exceptions within Germany as well. Generalization can become quite contentious in discussions, but there is some value in understanding larger cultural phenomena, however broad brushed that might be. Thanks for adding color.

Not really true at IBM- I mean of course you got to take vacation. Also, you couldn't carry over vacation time, so often half the office was out last two or three weeks of December to use it up.

Also on vacation time: you can negotiate for more. I knew someone who negotiated for a 4 day work-week, but that was a special case (along the lines of "I don't need to work anymore, so if you really want me it's going to be for 4 days a week only").

Note that what is considered "left of center" in America would likely be significantly right of center to a European.

Not really.

Europe is very left WRT economic structures and acceptance of certain social norms (nudity, athiesm), but would be considered right to far right WRT identity politics. All the Europeans I know think North America is insane WRT political correctness, identity politics, cancel culture, etc...

It's just different... Also keep in mind vast swaths of Europe weren't colonizers, were conquered many times themselves, haven't seen much immigration, etc...

More interesting I think than the opinions of “all the Europeans” you know on cancel culture would be the political status of abortion in Western Europe.

The USA has a large number of people with far right abortion politics and they are succeeding at a federal level in getting their way. It would be interesting to see if Western Europe has any comparable level of social regressivism winning battles in court and parliament. I suspect Western Europe does not.

You are aware that abortion is illegal in Germany right?

It has been de facto "decriminalized" in the first trimester, since the government has declined to prosecute such cases, however a doctor even advertising that they perform abortions is grounds to lose their medical license.

It is legal in other European countries, but I just want to point out that Europe is neither homogeneous nor universally "left" of the US

This is the first time I read this and I'm very surprised that it is the case. Would you have a source I could read to learn more about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany is a decent start.

Abortion is somewhat restricted in Germany, heavily restricted in Poland and banned in a few smaller countries. It was only allowed in Ireland in 2019. Same sex marriage isn't allowed in much of the EU (although some of these countries have a separate partnership status for same-sex couples). Cannabis is illegal everywhere in Europe. Europe isn't as liberal as you think.

Really? Can you name which policies, of, say, Bernie Sanders are SIGNIFICANTLY right of center in Europe?

Bernie Sanders would be a very moderate Social Democrat in most of Europe, slightly left of center. The fact that he plays a very small role in US politics and is obstracised as some kind of SuperStalin is telling on where mainstream US policy is on the spectrum.

Name a SOLIDLY left wing party with significant representation in Europe so we can put your reasoning to the test - people like you love to deal in generalities so you don't have to be nailed down on your sweeping statements, so show us some examples. Then we can pick a few policy issues and compare.

If I read https://berniesanders.com/issues/ all points except immigration and the green new deal would be considered quite right wing points in denmark, not just a little bit to the right of center.

I just read all of the Danish party platforms and I find them incredibly right wing compared to US ones, so there you go. My anecdotal evidence wins.

Having worked in US and Europe this take is pretty anecdotal and more a reflection of Bay Area certain company culture.

The US company I worked for encouraged vacation and offered almost the same amount as the European company I worked for (5 weeks).

Nobody was on Adderall in the US and the Europeans were putting in just as many late nights as the Americans.

I’d also argue that the Europeans often looked at the US politics as not “slightly left of center” but “fucking bonkers”.

The only point I care to touch on is the Adderall usage. Europeans, I think, would be shocked by the prevalence.

From the New York Times: "In the 1990s, an estimated 3 to 5 percent of school-age American children were believed to have A.D.H.D., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; by 2013, that figure was 11 percent."

There's a stigma to these prescription drugs, so you co-workers will likely conceal the truth. And you won't be able to perceive they're on these substances.

Americans have a more competitive work environment than Europeans. They're raised to succeed, as the stakes are higher (less of a safety net, student debt, housing prices, etc...).

What's interesting, is that I suspect Adderall abuse is higher amongst those raised in upper middle class households. Adderall is common amongst my privileged friends, yet you would never know unless you were very close to them. In fact, they'll lie to others. The types from elite schools: Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley. The types in MD-PhD programs, FAANG companies, and "big law".

> From the New York Times: "In the 1990s, an estimated 3 to 5 percent of school-age American children were believed to have A.D.H.D., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; by 2013, that figure was 11 percent."

That is not addreal statistic, but adhd in kids statistic.

The statistic from the NYT is estimated and you're missing the overall point.

What % of children are admitted to Stanford? A sliver. What % of Stanford undergraduates make it to a "big law" firm? A small percentage.

The speculative point is that US men from UMC households who were admitted to elite schools and who subsequently went on to competitive jobs have higher Adderall abuse rates than you might expect. No, you can't find statistics on it. And to make the matter more difficult, they'll lie to your face about the subject.

This conjecture isn't even controversial, this notion is echoed throughout the broader culture. For example, see the following article from the New Yorker -- a magazine that caters to the families of these types: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/04/27/brain-gain . The article begins with the sentence, "A young man I’ll call Alex recently graduated from Harvard."

There's a fairly strong "bring your whole self to work" culture. Meaning, you might be surprised the amount of familiarity between colleagues or discussion of their personal lives. This also covers topics like mental health and diversity. I think work might be more central part of your identity in the US (sometimes in unhealthy ways). We fetishize work and "hustle culture"[1]. These cultural aspects are reinforced by many social benefits being tied to one's employer.

US Politics are quite polarized right now, and US tech companies can work on being decidedly outspoken on the side of their employees (more supportive of the cultural left). Though of course, there's also a countermovement[2]

Sometimes it can instead of being part of a physical community, that my needs are more meant by the company mothership than the city I live in...

Like others have said, there's a lot of variation in US work cultures. I'm mostly thinking about the typical Silicon Valley Tech company moreso than

1 - https://www.impactplus.com/blog/what-is-hustle-culture-and-h... 2 - https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22418208/basecamp-all-hand...

I have not worked for Euro companies but have worked for South american companies and even american companies in south america.

The american work culture is among the best: people want to work and want to get paid. Americans tend to be willing to work 40% more for 20% more benefit, something that few places in the world tolerate. This makes for very dynamic workplaces, with a greater sense of purpose and responsibility.

The smaller the company the more intense the responsibility. This does not mean 80hr work weeks (though this exists, I have never faced it) but the base line is much higher.

On financing, it is hard to fathom for engineers outside america really how much money there is in this space. A new grad developer that displays some level of skill can easily get 200k+/yr total compensation offers. Furthermore stock is always one of the biggest compensation factors, where it usually does not exist significantly outside the us. In this bull market, stock compensation is around 60%+ of liquid compensation for public companies. Small companies have a lot of equity to give so you can ask for a lot and you have to be patient for that to pay off. Even the winners can take a decade to IPO or exit.

Americans do think health benefits are very important, but it is mostly a tax benefit. I would only focus on PTO/parental leave if applicable as a remote engineer and forget about all else, pay it out of pocket on your end.

Please post some references to these supposed “easily attained” 200k tco entry level jobs

FAANG interviews are quite game-able.

How so? Grind out leetcode problems?

I'm a decade out of school and 200k would be life changing for me+family.

How so? Grind out leetcode problems?

I'm a decade out of school and 200k would be life changing for me+family.

Exactly - LeetCode, system design, behavioral interview - you can prepare for it.

I was interviewing for the last few months and got plenty of LeetCode Hard questions. Was designing a time-series database at least three times. And talking about a situation when I had a conflict with my colleague at least five times :-)

gameable != trivial, these companies are looking for reasons not to hire you. I would say Amazon has the most structured interviews out of the FAANGS (probably the easiest but they are also the fastest to let people go, maybe FB is close), apple is more about fit.

Agreed it isn't trivial but neither is it impossible. Also agree that Amazon is probably the easiest to prep for once you understand the behavioral aspect.

https://www.levels.fyi/charts.html

Parent commenter didn't write "easily attained", so it's bad form to quote it. FAANG companies hire new grads, and when they do you can see from the levels.fyi charts that they're paid around $200k/year or a little below.

In the bay area this is pretty common. I don't know what the lower end for entry level is today, but the market is very generous.

Also, in a remote setting the company saves: Health Insurance Payroll taxes (both company and employee) General benefits (office, stipends, food, etc) Immigration costs (10k+)

Those are all very appealing perks for the employeer.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnWeMfyV4AEWIuk?format=jpg&name=...

I jest, somewhat...

To be fair I'd say this holds true for most interactions I've had working in Europe in English as well.

In the U.K for example, sure. But in the Central/Eastern countries, far from it.

Agree, but, I feel ashamed saying this, for western Europe that table is actually pretty close to reality.

Having gone the other way (US to Europe) I think the question is a bit broad. America doesn’t have a uniform culture, just like Europe is not one culture. Companies in New York, LA, Silicon Valley, and Omaha will have different cultures and work styles.

Aside from language and the obvious differences in food and so on that aren’t work specific, I think the big differences you might encounter are more working hours, more complicated (and expensive) medical benefits and care, and pressure not to take time off. Those factors vary widely too, though. Some American work places, especially in tech, look like catered playgrounds.

COVID has meant working from home part or full time for many Americans, so depending on the company you may not have much direct exposure to workplace culture.

One thing I’ve noticed working with foreigners in the US: Americans tend to focus on results and teamwork. I’ve worked with people from other cultures who have focused on blame when something goes wrong, where the American tendency is to fix, move on, don’t repeat the mistake. That’s a generalization of course. At the same time Americans believe in personal accountability and keeping commitments, which get expressed differently in other cultures.

Plenty of blame and shame goes on. It’s just more passive aggressive.

Yeah you have a point. I have certainly seen plenty of that in American companies. It’s hard to tell how much of that you might have to put up with during the interviews and honeymoon phase.

Would you be relocating, or staying in Europe? If you stay in Europe, time zones will come into play, so be prepared to take some late shifts and very heavy afternoon meetings. We are remote-friendly and I have many Euro colleagues however because our corporate is here, they do get the short end of the stick for scheduling.

Would you be taking the company's benefits? Another thing I've heard a lot of culture shock regarding is health care premiums from EU people who've relocated here.

At least in the UK, those 'healthcare premiums', are just an income tax.

Do not be phased when a co-worker offers to show you their gun collection.

> ...I'm curious about the differences in work culture.

This is indeed a valid question to ask as a part of interview. How would a company describe its culture, what would they choose to emphasize to you.

Likewise, in you own professional experience, what does stand out as important for you workplace culture wise.

As for the US companies, they are quite diverse in general and industry wide. Some companies may be quite "international" in that sense. Not sure which industries may have a larger Western European presence on work force, but anything related to academia or research may have a geater chance to encounter post-docs from Europe.

Learn the difference between high context and low context cultures.

Are you getting offers to join as a FTE or a contractor? This may make a big difference - especially since you mention benefits

The best is to be a contractor and get no benefits -- but do ask for stock, and for as much as you can.

I’m not aware of any company that awards shares to contractors.

I’ve been offered stock as a contractor for reducing my rate, researching it it seems fairly common.

Ive gotten this multiple times. The method of employment != role.

A contractor usually elicits someone doing temp, but in this case we are talking about a FTE that on paper is a contractor. You can ask for every single benefit, provided it is legal.

Vacations. I miss those so much.

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