State of Digital Nomads
nomadlist.com
nomadlist.com
Also, how is being in a relationship an attractive trait? Does that imply that nomads are mostly attracted to people who are in a relationship?
Can you share what useful statistics look like for you?
I don't intend to continue with nomading post-pandemic, and had pretty much stopped before the pandemic began anyhow. It was a great run though, and I recommend it to anyone who can structure their life to support doing it, although I don't think it's doable as a permanent lifestyle unless you're very much aligned with the average nomad. While everybody I met and traveled with were decent, smart people, at some level I just approach my goals of travel differently than most other people. I think a lot of digital nomads are subtly and unintentionally disrespectful to the places that they travel to, and this is something I really couldn't abide, which is why I ended up greatly preferring solo travel and avoiding coworking spaces or other nomad hotspots.
FWIW, I found that the digital nomads I got along the best with were continental European. I pretty much can't stand Americans, the British, and Australians when I'm traveling (even though I'm American myself). For some reason most Americans, British, and Australians go into every experience by comparing it to where they come from and judging it by that standard and expecting so much and in ways I find disrespectful. Also, it's shocking how loud and obnoxious and how obsessed with "partying" those demographics are. I'm not a teetotaler, but if all you do is spend every waking moment getting plastered in a night club, how does one location really differ from another? If you just want to spend your life being shithoused, you can do that at home without invading other spaces with your destructive energy. Part of my experiences might have been because digital nomads from those countries skew young (early 20s), most of the Europeans I met were older (30+).
At any rate, I invested myself into the experience, and I loved solo travel but group experiences really soured me on the "digital nomad lifestyle" and the sort of people who see themselves that way. And for my own ego issue, I think partly I was annoyed by being judged on the basis of how others behave rather than how I behave. Nonetheless, I found the experience rewarding and met lots of amazing people I've kept in touch with and I hope left each place I visited enriched by my presence rather than diminished by it.
So not much different than tourists that are welcome to spend their money in countries?
Tourists do things during the day, they dont sit behind a laptop all the time. They spend a lot of money each day then go home after a week or two.
Tourists tend to stay in highly taxed hotels or short-term rentals. Nomads might do that, but they also couch surf, camp, live in vans, etc.
Tourists dine out more than a typical resident, which in most places is taxed higher than groceries.
And simply based on length of stay, a nomad is more likely to consume expensive services like medical care.
With all that said, there should be a way for people to work wherever they want (and pay appropriate taxes while doing so).
Traditional tourists may spend more money, but nomads still likely spend more than locals do.
But, in a higher income area? I doubt it. A single mid-career developer in the US is going to pay somewhere around 20% in income taxes (combined federal, state/local, FICA, after 401k contributions and taking standard deduction).
A nomad living in my area (DC metro) would have to consume a lot of stuff to make up for that tax shortfall.
edit: Estonia is the only one that I know of that explicitly considers the position of being employed by a company located in a foreign country. https://e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/
Absolutely agree. I'm not anti-nomad - I'd love to do it myself. But, the hurdles of doing are too high to make the leap. Hell, even doing it within the US isn't easy because of state taxes. And I'd want to visit places for more than the typical 90-day tourist visa - probably more like a year at a time.
There may be a state or local payroll tax shortfall, because those have different standards, but usually directly fund benefit programs for which the nomad worker isn't eligible as a result of the same rules, so its a wash.
I would gladly get a visa and pay taxes to enroll in the healthcare system... but it's quite difficult. That's another discussion, though.
That's the main complaint I've heard - nomads don't pay local income taxes, but consume services more like a local than a tourist.
Don't be so sure about this. Link?
E.g: Sweden 2020, income taxes 31% vs VAT 22% of total tax revenue.
Nomads are great. They drop by in prime productive age, stay for a bit and generate tax revenue. Only stay as long as they have money, no social security costs. Have medical insurance.
? How do you calculate to get them to be net negative to your society ?
For a resident with $100,000 income... $31,000 in income taxes. Assuming no savings and all consumption taxed at 22%, that's ~$15k in consumption taxes. Total tax burden ~$46k.
For a US-based nomad with $100k income, paying US income taxes (~20% fed/state combined), that's $80k to spend and <$18k in total taxes.
$28,000 delta. That $28k is being spent on something (military, police, whatever). Maybe the nomad isn't using any services that the $28k delta is funding. I don't know. But, just on the rough math, a nomad pays less in tax than a resident.
I guess the real question is does a nomad use services more like a short-term tourist or more like a long-term resident? And does the consumption taxes paid end up as a positive or a negative? How long does a nomad have to reside in an area to consume enough services to need to pay income tax? I don't know the answer - I only know the nomad is absolutely paying less in total tax burden than a resident.
Unlikely. Age distribution of tourists is significantly older than nomads. Younger people require significantly less medical expenditure than older. Older people also take longer than average vacations.
Regardless, both nomads and tourists are generally covered by medical insurance.
If they buy things, they pay consumption taxes.
If they rent accommodations, they pay (indirectly) property taxes, and (depending on the particular accommodations) potentially extra short-term residency taxes.
Unless they are scofflaws, they probably also pay any applicablr income taxes, which most taxing jurisdictions levy on any income earned in the jurisdiction (which nomads are, for the duration of their stay).
It's a good reminder that really no matter how much I break away from the proverbial mold, I'm still average.
but then I moved to Spain and have been there pretty steady for 2 years. I fit a lot of "nomad" traits, except for the key definition: I haven't moved around.
There's a blurry line between "expat" and "nomad".
I'm so glad my unexpected nomad journey is coming to an end. :-)
Genuine curious how you got into this lifestyle.
Preface: it's kind of scary to think you're a trope as this hit the mark for most things. But despite having spent many years in Boulder where I went biking and hiking extensively I still miss having proper gyms open as nothing will replace that feeling and routine for both my physical as well as mental health.
I've been in Croatia since May during the pandemic, and to be honest it really depends on what part you are in and the amount of friction you encounter. It was so much easier handling things in the South (Dalmatia) than it is in the North where I'm told I am the first Digital Nomad and I keep getting sent back for more processes.
It helped that my landlord worked in the tourist ministry in the South when I came in May, but overall this has been the most absurd experience I've had since I've been in this country and I first visited in 2012 before it entered the EU and it's made worse by the fact that they think they are upholding to EU standards somehow.
Things are as normal as they can be given the worries of the Delta variant and in the Southern tourist areas some clubs were trying to re-open but kept getting shutdown or were forced to do so on a curfew by police into late July, the restaurants had indoor and outdoor dining. Public transportation was available for the most part with pretty standard service. It was like 75% pre-covid.
Croatia is a tourist economy and things are starting to wind down so less things are open, but to be honest, other than the gyms I'm not to worried as I'm really not here to party it up like I had in previous years. I'm more interested in taking time to enjoy and absorb the culture that I fell in love with when I first starting traveling extensively when I was in my mid 20s.
FYI: I spent time this summer in Germany visiting a friend on a tourist visa not DN and I couldn't wait to get the hell back and return to Croatia because of the amount of needless bureaucracy that was obviously of no practical use other than forced compliance, however, in N. Croatia it's like they took the worst parts of Italy and made it somehow even worse and expect you to just keep coming back.
I'll spare you (some of) the details of all the bureaucratic things, but if anyone from YC hopes to come to Croatia stay in Dalmatia, or have a lawyer on standby--I met a local who was studying to be one at the police station and it was super useful. Dalamtia is not only favorite part of Croatia for food and cultural reasons but it's come to be my place to regain sanity despite all the chaos in the World. And they're opening a digital nomad village this weekend to prove why I love it there [0].
0: https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/10/01/want-to-work-remo...
5% are gay/lesbian, 9% are bi. Compare to these metrics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... -- that's a higher ratio than all but 3 states in the USA.
> Who is the average nomad?
While "nomads are disproportionately x, y, and z" would also be a great follow-up, "the average nomad" is separate and it's just as interesting to think about the archetype of 10,000 nomads put together!
I don't see why you would be angry at this.