Comment by ChrisMarshallNY | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY | Hacker News Reader

ChrisMarshallNY

Although I support the idea, the web site seems a bit … sparse … to me.

This is an area that I know well. I’ve been working with folks like this for decades.

One huge problem with rehabilitation and reentry programs, is a fairly significant level of sketchy behavior. Many times, these efforts start from a good place, but fall victim to corruption.

It’s difficult to work with folks that have criminal backgrounds, but it can be quite gratifying. The challenges are real, but there are many, many people that are willing to work hard to climb out of a hole. It’s incredibly rewarding to help those folks.

But there are always a few that have no interest in changing their spots, and they can really piss in the punch bowl. It’s important to be ready for these people. This kind of work is not for the faint of heart. Tough room.

Also, I’m not too thrilled about the site conflating “disadvantaged” folks with ex-cons.

They are quite different. Although ex-cons are a subset of disadvantaged people, they are a pretty small percentage, and present radically different challenges from other folks that suffer from things like poverty, prejudice, and lack of opportunity.

Hi founder of Underdog Devs here....

1. The website is sparse because we spend our money on the mentees bills and so relied on those learning to build it.

2. As for orgs having a "fairly significant level of sketchy behavior" and falling victim to corruption, as you put it...sounds like a lot of speculation. I cant know either of those assertions as I dont have any data on it. I only know what we are doing.

3. I disagree that it's difficult to work with folks who have criminal backgrounds. I do agree that there are some who have no interest in changing.

4. The site doesnt conflate “disadvantaged” folks with ex-cons. Read it again. It says OR. Meaning you can come from either.

5. You say ex-cons are a subset of disadvantaged people and then you mention they face "radically" different challenges than folks who suffer from things like poverty, prejudice, and lack of opportunity. They face legal discrimination but thats the only difference. The vast majority of inmates come from lower socio-economic backgrounds so they face very similar obstacles.

If you have any more questions reach out rick@underdogdevs.org or join an info session some time.

upvote

I won’t get into a pissing match, here, but my own life story is one you might find interesting (or maybe not).

I’m not some “ivory tower geek,” using strawman arguments. I have over 40 years, working directly with folks, suffering from withering challenges. It's entirely possible that we might travel in the same circles, and you may have even run across my work (most folks don't know it's my work, but a lot of people use it).

But I sincerely wish you well, and I’m gratified that you responded. You are always free to reach out (I’m easy to find), if you want to continue the discussion.

Good luck, and Godspeed.

[EDITED TO ADD] And welcome to HN! I'm looking forward to seeing your viewpoints here. You have a unique life story.

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match?

I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match.

Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately know what it takes for our mentees to do what we are trying to help them do. I did it. I grew up in prison and then later became a developer. All that is true but I was just answering your questions and felt no need to tell you why I think I have the perspective and knowledge to do what we are doing.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/offenderSearch/detail.aspx?Page=De...

Actually, I already knew your story. You haven’t made an effort to hide it. It seems as if you actually make a point of highlighting it.

I’d gently suggest that taking a combative stance may play well in The Yard, but is less effective, out here. Those of us that face societal challenges are best-served by playing nice. That’s one of the hardest lessons that folks in reentry need to learn.

I sincerely wish you the best. There are folks that want you to succeed, and we may not all be who you expect.

I certainly apologize for throwing shade. I have become quite cynical, over the years, and regularly encounter folks that look at people like us as “easy marks,” because society doesn’t really have our back.

You're right I havent made an effort to hide my past. Hard thing to hide, spending nearly half my life behind bars. I also highlight it. I use it as a tool. Its a point of reference for people wondering if they can do it. And we have also used it to garner support for Underdog Devs.

Thats not me being combative. Thats just me answering what felt like accusatory insinuations. I was defensive and direct but I wasn't trying to provoke you.

Appreciate you apologizing and I understand your cynicism. Im a bit cynical with this space as well.

I assure you UD is a different thing than what you're used to. We havent even used any money for operating costs. We could but we've instead focused on getting mentees bills paid so that those who would be most impacted by the economic mobility that programming affords can focus on learning. We all have spent countless hours, all as volunteers, trying to create opportunities for folks who might not otherwise have them.

Appreciate your support and the apology.

I think your original response came off as a bit defensive and combative, as did this one. Not a good look if you're trying to garner support, especially since the person has experience in this realm and it would've been good to acknowledge different experiences

I agree they were defensive responses. I was responding to accusations. The defensiveness was intentional.

The first comment felt like he was insinuating we are sketchy and the second that I was attempting to involve him in a "pissing contest". Neither are true and so I was defensive. I wasn't being an asshole. I was speaking plainly to those insinuations. I simply addressed where he might be wrong.

Between school and studies I also worked for a year a job involving manual labor (what people do during that time). So there were people with such backgrounds. All people are different and while working there I found them very likeable. With one guy I also became friends later and that guy stalked/pressed money out of me for a year. I think this is all great but companies need to have a very good idea what they are doing and have 1:1s with all employees about this and educate their juniors well.

> Also, I’m not to thrilled about the site conflating “disadvantaged” folks with ex-cons.

True, I mean "disadvantaged" people might not be selling themselves so well anyway. So people are already cautious.

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