Comment by WastingMyTime89 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by WastingMyTime89 | Hacker News Reader

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WastingMyTime89

I don't know. At some point, it's also a question of perception and attitude.

Falling off the career ladder is in itself a strange idea. As I get older, it seems to me that the concept has little actual reality. Few people have linear career nowadays.

At some point, things tend to take a turn for the unexpected. It can be failing to reach the position you were aiming for or suddenly finding yourself unemployed. It can also be becoming in charge of something you weren't expecting and finding you like that more than you thought.

You have to find an equilibrium between playing the card you are given and stiring your life in the direction you want. It's not always easy but you can find interesting things to do from many positions. I can't stop thinking that to you they were horror stories but that might not entierely be the case from their point of view: hanging out at an hacker space, meeting people, working on new things, that's not the worst place to be if you want to rebound.

Here's a concrete example. There was a guy that had a PhD and worked for big pharma as a researcher all his life. The company he was working for downsized and he was left unemployed at 54. He looked for another position somewhere else, but he could not find a position at his pervious level of seniority: he had fallen off the career ladder. He was thus stuck in a strange limbo: he was capable of doing things below his level of experience, but companies were looking for someone at the right level of the progression system to fit the slot.

The worst thing about this case is that his wife had multiple sclerosis, and so his health insurance was of the utmost importance to him. This caused him incredible stress as he continued to look for work to no avail.

The problem with the modern workplace is specialization. Some people are extraordinarily specialized. The man I spoke of was highly talented, but also highly specialized. It's hard for someone to adapt at 54 to another specialization. I actually helped him pick up python, and he learned quickly, but it was clear that the man was not in his spry years. Any college kid could beat him in productivity in some code monkey role -- which is what he eventually started trying to hunt for.

I could also tell you about a guy that had a masters degree in chemical engineering working at Best Buy alongside me when I was in college. I've met so many people in my life that have not been privy to the dynamically lateral career system you seem to be aware of.

I know from direct experience that some people do indeed fall off the ladder. To me it isn't a concept: it's the reality I've observed.

> I could also tell you about a guy that had a masters degree in chemical engineering working at Best Buy alongside me when I was in college. I've met so many people in my life that have not been privy to the dynamically lateral career system you seem to be aware of.

Well he obviously was. He was working at Best Buy.

If making $10 an hour as a retail employee when you have an advanced degree is what you were talking about when you spoke of the non-linear careers people have today...that seems a little facetious to me. I guess if I make some money panhandling, that's also a career change too....right?

> If making $10 an hour as a retail employee when you have an advanced degree is what you were talking about when you spoke of the non-linear careers people have today...

Losing your job or failing to find a job in a field which isn't growing and having to make do with what you can is a fact of life and definitely an example of a non-linear career. There is nothing facetious there.

That might end up just being a way to live while waiting for something else, that might be the start of a career in retail. It's just how it is.

Non-linear career to me means working as a web developer and then working as a mobile developer. Working as a web developer and then working as a plumber is not a non-linear career to me, but two different careers. You are using "career" in the sense of work life and I'm using it in the sense of occupation/profession.

Most people do not benefit from a change in profession -- especially if you are a highly trained specialist.

Getting knocked out of your life-long profession is not something most people want to experience. My original post was about this and what happens to people when they find themselves in this situation.

It's harder on some than it is on other. You seem to be a highly resilient and optimistic fellow so I'm sure this issue is not as much a concern to you as it is to some other kinds of people.

It seems your thesis was conclusively disproved by the parent poster and you're just nitpicking. This would be a good time to stop posting and reconsider your approach.

At 54 with a PhD, is there a reason he wasn't looking for management or leadership positions instead?

I know very little about pharma, but my guess would be that domain knowledge and industry connections would be super valuable.

He had a PhD in econometrics. He was a supreme nerd. He did not strike me as the management type. Some people just aren't able to climb that ladder and they fall off.

> Some people just aren't able to climb that ladder and they fall off.

That's learned helplessness. You are looking at it from a fatalist point of view. You said yourself that this person actually decided to learn python and try to find a job in software engineering so he was actually more resourceful that you give him credit for.

> Falling off the career ladder is in itself a strange idea. As I get older, it seems to me that the concept has little actual reality. Few people have linear career nowadays.

I basically fell of the career ladder early in my previous career as an Academic. Not as bad as falling off in the private sector, as I remained employed, but I picked the wrong job twice, had a little bad luck and became stuck in a crappy position, unable to move forward, unable to change university, and of course in permanent burnout.

I got away by joining a start-up and this relaunched my career, quite successfully, on a very different track. Not everybody has that opportunity, though.

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