Hacker News Reader

Comment by marbletimes | Hacker News Reader

It depends on where.

In a European country, think Spain, Italy, France, "get good grades, study a valuable major, don't eat garbage, don't marry crazy people/idiots, stay off dangerous drugs, and mainly show up to work, be clean and nice" and you are likely to end up with job paying 40 to 80k (before taxes) a year, which is not bad, but I consider that money far from financially making someone "a very successful 40-year-old".

With my STEM major and a PhD, I would have made between 40 and 50k per year before taxes.

View on HN

There are places in those and similar countries where that sort of income will let you own a house and car, raise a family and pets, even fit in a fairly cost-intensive hobby such as sailing/horseriding/cars/light aircraft if you don't go crazy. It's genuinely a slightly confusing situation to be in, compared to reading about Google employees making half a million a year - are you living a great life, or falling behind the modern world?

As a person living in a (relatively for the western world) low-cost-of-living area, making a decent income for a low-cost-of-living area, it sometimes feels like a local maximum. It would take a sizeable income jump to offset low cost of housing. No doubt the top world cities are the place to be, in terms of all kinds of fun and opportunities, but lifestyle would be worse there unless or until you'd broken into a really high income bracket.

As someone living in the United States and earning much more than I would in my home country, even though my professional contribution would be the same if the same opportunities existed in my home country (I took my PhD in my home country), there is no comparison between the quality of life I have in the country I currently live in and my home country given the expected local salary - setting aside loved ones, friends, and memories.

If a two-bedroom apartment goes for 200k and after taxes what I have is 25k or so, my financial situation, considering kids, car(s), aging parents and what we call life, would certainly not be one of unquestionable success.

"Sailing/horse riding/cars/light aircraft" would certainly be a stretch.

That's only if you measure success along a single axis (income).

I've historically measured my professional success over many other axis, which has lead to a detriment of income. I was fine with this in my 20s to 40s, but now in my 50s it seems a mistake. When young, you have the belief that you can always make up the money later, or the effects of not having it are small. When it is later, you realize how little of a window you have left.

So while I would agree that professional success should be measured on multiple scales, if you were to run a PCA on the multiple dimensions then income should be the largest principle component.

NOTE! I am speaking only of success in your career. However, since this is where most of your energies during your adult life go, it is a dominant factor in your success in other areas.

The hypothesis here is that there is a trade-off between making bank and living a pleasant life, whatever attributes one wants to associate with "pleasant", maybe low professional stress, maybe time spent with loved ones, maybe waking up when the world is already spinning at full speed.

There might be a weak positive correlation at the population level between (broadly speaking) "being miserable/not having a good time/give up life for money" and "income", but at the individual level what we can say is that there are millions of people in the world making good to very good to great money while having the time of their lives day after day.

I might be one of those, for now. In the future, who knows.

Agreed. That's why I wrote,"but I consider that money far from ----financially---- making someone "a very successful 40-year-old"."

If you are a youngster in Spain, Italy or France, your best bet for a good job is to take your diploma and leave your country.

It is that or a low paid but cozy government job.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com