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Comment by apexalpha | Hacker News Reader

Weird, because over here WhatsApp is ingrained into the social fabric of your life. Couldn't imagine ever going back to texting/iMessage.

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WhatsApp, like the metric system, is a “literally everywhere but the US” thing. I’ve never once seen it used in the US.

But your friend groups would probably be able to migrate to Signal/Discord/Hangouts/etc quite quickly if WhatsApp were to disappear, no? WhatsApp has the network effect on its side by way of existing, but that could change quickly if given a push.

Sure. But you might not get everyone back - you'd have to have an alternate method of talking to the folks to get them to switch and meet up in the same place. You'd have this if the service just slowly died (like landlines), but not if something breaks instantly - forever. I'm guessing we've all had this when games died (especially old text-based MMORPG's, for example. So many people gone).

At least with WhatsApp you do have the contact's phone number, so you can reach them via SMS if necessary.

Do you have to open WhatsApp and connect to the servers to access the number? (Honest question here, I've never used it)

You have to open the app, but you can see phone numbers in airplane mode.

People would just use an alternative, like Telegram or whatever is the next most popular one.

Having trouble doing calls on Telegram now - I guess because of the shift in load to Telegram

After using Telegram, WhatsApp is a complete piece of garbage, if it disappeared from the face of the earth it would be sure for the best as people would move on to alternative messengers.

Does Telegram have E2E messages by default, and using a sensible encryption protocol? If not, I disagree.

IIRC, e2e by default for audio/video; for text chats, can be enabled by marking chat as 'secret'. Is it true E2E? Probably not (i.e. Telegram has keys that can be turned over to any government, noone argues with that)

Does WhatsApp have a true E2E either? Ask hundreds of moderators employed by Facebook who review WhatsApp messages flagged as improper and the chat history around them...

However, accepting the fact that neither of the services is truly secure, Telegram experience as a service is much better for an average user.

> for text chats, can be enabled by marking chat as 'secret'. Is it true E2E? Probably not (i.e. Telegram has keys that can be turned over to any government, noone argues with that)

That was my problem, and your confirmation means it's still as good as nothing.

> Does WhatsApp have a true E2E either? Ask hundreds of moderators employed by Facebook who review WhatsApp messages flagged as improper and the chat history around them...

If one of the ends decides to share a message, it's still E2E. That is the big difference.

> If one of the ends decides to share a message, it's still E2E. That is the big difference.

True. But you can't prove that "one of the ends" must necessarily be a human and not the logic in the app code, or an intended backdoor? E.g., an automated logic scanning for 'malicious' messages on-device.

I still remember the era when the "in" messenger changed every 2-3 years: ICQ -> AIM -> MSN Messenger -> Google Chat, etc.

Changing messaging apps not the most convenient thing in the world, but it's not some kind of IT cataclysm. Plenty of WhatsApp competitors exist.

Small and medium businesses would suffer as well, since many use WhatsApp as a sales channel now.

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