Finally, on CBS, the football matches the business cards | Hacker News Reader

Finally, on CBS, the football matches the business cards

ological.net

Whatever the other failings of this redesign, the ampersand is a winner, a full-bodied, chewy soft pretzel of a thing. I want to bite into that ampersand and feel its warm, doughy goodness fill the spaces between my teeth.

I enjoyed this fun poke at television UX far more than I enjoy watching football. Thanks for sharing!

>Go on, try to find a more graceful down-and-distance ampersand. You can’t. That ampersand is a little butler, gently pouring you a teacup of chamomile football.

This guy has opinions about ampersands that I didn't know someone could have. It was delightful and makes me glad I'm on HN.

"Look at that subtle off-white coloring, the tasteful thickness of it..."

Let's see ESPN get a reservation at Dorsia now!

I don’t agree with a lot of this article. I think the font looks excellent, I appreciate coherencies across a brand’s design, and most of all, I think the purpose of a score indicator over a football game is to tell you the score, and get out of the way.

That being said, these are opinions, and I’m glad there’s someone else who pays attention to the design language used by football broadcasters.

> That being said, these are opinions, and I’m glad there’s someone else who pays attention to the design language used by football broadcasters.

I feel like once you have the knowledge to pay attention to design language you are now cursed to do so everywhere. It's like the curse of a trained ear - congratulations on being able to hear any chord progression, now you can't escape every song you ever liked being the same 4 chords over and over again.

> I feel like once you have the knowledge to pay attention to design language you are now cursed to do so everywhere.

For a long time in my career as a software engineer I mostly avoided this, but a little over a decade ago I had a designer who beat tiny details into everyone on the team. I kinda feel like he took away my innocence to some extent, as I can’t look at fonts, colors, and other design details anymore without noticing all the flaws so pervasive all around us.

> I feel like once you have the knowledge to pay attention to design language you are now cursed to do so everywhere.

It is very true. A common example is kerning (hence the joke, keming). Once you learn the nuances of spacing between letters you start to notice it everywhere.

There was also a great SNL skit about a graphics designer who was haunted by the Avatar logo which was simply the papyrus font.

I've never paid any attention to the UX of the score box until I read this. I agree with a lot of the sentiment and the tone of the article is hilarious. Most fans watching sports only look at score boxes when they were away from the broadcast for some reason. If you are intensely watching your favorite team, you don't even need a score box.

I've seen corporate re-branding efforts first hand and his introspection to how, potentially, CBS is always about the CBS-way is kinda funny. This is kind of like how I think system integration issues inside a software company almost are a tell of how the org is structured.

Why don't any of these score displays show the field position? It's 3rd and 8 but are we in field goal range? Gotta wait for a camera angle that shows the field.

a) because "field goal range" is subjective and differs among kickers

b) the football field is extremely well-marked to easily determine the field position

> a) because "field goal range" is subjective and differs among kickers

Of course field goal range is subjective. That's my point. If I know the position on the field I can make my own decision based on my perception of our kicker.

> b) the football field is extremely well-marked to easily determine the field position

Yes, when it is on screen. Between plays a wide angle of the field is rare.

> based on my perception of our kicker.

The amount of work it would take for every network to know every kicker and create a framework for showing that is a lot higher than for you to know your team's kicker, which odds are you already know anyway. Though it creates another marketing opportunity (Red Gold Red Zone, anyone?) so maybe it's just a matter of time.

ESPN (and sometimes Fox, I think?) will sometimes show a field mark like the AR first down line for a team's kicker's record kick (furthest kick they've made successfully in a game with this team). My brain tells me when I've seen it has most often been a Blue Line, so I guess it denotes the wider kick-scoring "Blue Zone" versus the field-scoring "Red Zone"?

They often have line indicators to show field goal range. I'm not sure if that's specific one broadcaster. I agree field position would be handy.

Similarly, if it’s “3rd & GOAL”, how much farther is there to go? Nine and a half yards? Three inches?

Pretty standard for them to call out "3rd & Goal from the 5" or, graphically, above "3rd & goal" a pop-up text with an arrow ">Ball at %Team% 5".

They probably change to "3rd & Inches" when it's less than a yard.

They do not.

3rd & inches from the 1 would indicate the chance to get a 1st down, and additional downs to score.

However, you'd have to know that "Inches" is a possibility to deduce that "GOAL" is more than mere inches to go.

I'll summon my FOSS-based knowledge of UX to suggest a change:

Change "3rd & GOAL" to "3rd -g --ONLY_INCHES_TO_GO=NULL" and "3rd & INCHES" to "3rd -g --ONLY_INCHES_TO_GO=4"

Broadcasts often have something like "3rd & Goal. Ball at opp 6" or "1st & 10. Ball at own 25".

I personally like it as is. When the ball snaps you can see the yardline and they do usually put up a field goal line when its appropriate. I feel like for whatever value it adds being on the bottom it ultimately clutters things more.

> I personally like it as is.

You are wrong.

> When the ball snaps you can see the yardline and they do usually put up a field goal line when its appropriate.

Uh huh, when it snaps. But between the previous down and the snap spectators are in the dark. I can buy a 70" TV for less than $1,000.00. I don't need to save space on the screen. I need context.

This article has no right to be as well written as it is.

The article has every right to be this good: the writer is John Teti, who used to be editor in chief of the AV Club (and hosted its short-lived tv show). If you've never read his football column Block and Tackle, it's great: and I haven't followed football since the mid-90s! https://www.avclub.com/tv/sports

He has a column:

https://www.ological.net/author/john/

Ological is his personal site!

I know, right? I hope one day he stumbles on the website for my work and does a writeup.

What about possession of the ball? Only Fox seems to show this with a dot next to a teams score. I often glance at the score box when busy, but have wait to see which team takes possession to know the current state of the game before I can continue my busy work away from the TV.

From the article:

> Amid its grandeur, NBC also maintains touches of subtlety—such as the tiny possession indicator above each team’s score

In later CBS screenshots, you can see it indicated sometimes. When it shows "3rd & 7", that box will be filled with the team color of the team in possession. It's not a permanent box, though.

Read through this whole thing thinking it was filling the "Block & Tackle"-sized hole in my heart, only to realize by the end that this was also authored by John Teti! I'm glad he's still doing it, cause B&T was weekly reading for me back in the day :)

You may be happy to click here:

https://www.ological.net/author/john/

Anything that moves away from the CBSness is a good thing. Their broadcasts have been second rate mediocrities since they’ve had the rights:

- Completely bland theme music.

- Half-witted former QB analysts (other than Romo).

- The worst studio show.

The other networks (particularly NBC) do a way better job.

> Anything that moves away from the CBSness is a good thing

The article's entire point is that the graphics were redesigned for more CBS-ness.

The article says the old way was the cbs way (blue colors, stay out of the way)

He is lamenting that the football graphics look like everything else on the network, that they don't make an exception for the spectacle of pro football.

> It just looks like “CBS,” because it’s the same font the network uses to brand its news shows, comedies, and paint-by-numbers crime procedurals. The name of that font is TT Norms

the pre-2020 FOX look (shown on an article linked in OP[0]), looks like a better version of what CBS seems to be going for https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,f_au...

[0] https://www.avclub.com/fox-redesigns-its-nfl-graphics-for-th...

This is especially disappointing considering CBS owns what seems to be one of the more popular sports statistic suites: https://www.statcrew.com/

Why would the quality of the announcers or theme music have any influence on an XML feed of straight sports stats (specifically designed to avoid editorializing)?

* Their studio show is by far the best

* Nantz and Romo are by far the best broadcast crew

* NBC is old hat at this point. Nobody wants to listen to Collinsworth anymore

I’d still take Collinsworth over aikman and buck, and his commentary is still better than any of the sports radio Monday morning armchair quarterbacks.

The Manning Bros are interesting

Cris Collinsworth, yes it’s spelled Cris, makes me want to rend my ears from my skull. Collinsworth and Al Michaels is like some kind of perfectly seasoned stew of stupidity worthy of Idiocracy. Listening to the two of them I can’t help but constantly think of the NFL as bread and circuses meant to placate a mentally degraded populace.

Now here's a guy who can really break down what ruins a broadcast crew.

"The vest is a remnant of 19th-century football rules, in which this role would have been held by a beekeeper, who tended the hive of angry bees used to mark first down."

Is this true? I can't tell if he's being legit here or just running with a joke.

I often warn people that, no matter how off-the-scale obviously ridiculous you think your absurd, satirical jest may be, there will, not maybe, not probably, but will definitely be, somewhere, someone who takes you literally.

It's a joke about the uniform

> It's an iPhone 13 sort of update, with no compelling reason to exist other than somebody decided it was time for it to exist.

Funny he should mention that, because the CBS graphics look to me like Windows 11: flat, seemingly uniform, nicely subtly gradiented, but subtly inconsistent in an irritating, pebble-in-shoe kind of way.

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