The Making of Donkey Kong 64 (2019) | Hacker News Reader

The Making of Donkey Kong 64 (2019)

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It was a fun game, but I don't understand the comments stating it was so novel. It was basically a clone of banjo & kazooie themed using the already created awesome universe of DK from the super NES. Basically a patchwork of copies.

Honestly, the very first one was a lot more innovative:

- completely original licence, with terrific characters, world design and music composition

- incredible graphisms pushing the limit of what the console could do

- new gameplay mecanisms everywhere: dual play, animals, barrels...

- humour a the center of platformer for the first time

The 64 version just reused that. I have to assume this was amazing for the people that started the serie with this one, because while it was nice, it's probably the least remarkable of the whole serie.

It's like when everybody told me how good Mass Effect was, the pinnacle of RPG. Then I played it and was stunned people enjoyed it so much. It was a far cry from even classic titles of 10 years before. Linear, bad UI, lacking combat system and a scenario ripping off Babylon 5. But then I realized: if this is your first big RPG, then yes, it makes sense.

So if it was, indeed, your first DK and you haven't played D&K, then playing the rest may feel backward. And you enjoyed all the goodness in one big shot.

I dunno. I may just have been the right age for it but loved DK64 as one of my top games of the era even after B&K and a couple of DKCs. There were still innovative parts, new takes and iterations and a new scale, the collectathon (loathed by some, enjoyed by 11yo me).

I found the endgame and last boss fight particularly memorable.

You do have a point but with very few exceptions every innovative game after the 80s is in some sense an iteration on existing concepts.

Honestly, if the game made kids plenty of good memories, it was a great success.

And maybe I was already too old when I finished it. Everything taste differently when you are under 12.

Indeed. Seeing, for example, how some otherwise balanced adults easily get sucked into sinking thousands of hours into incremental clickers while some find them incredibly boring and pointless tells me it just might be due to different "player styles" as well

>>> using the already created awesome universe of DK from the super NES

Speedrunning those classic SNES titles: DK3, Contra IV, Super Metroid, Castlevania IV, FFIV. Still fun in 2021 ;)

PS1 Crash Bandicoot "making of" really gets into detail the transition to 3D in the 90s:

https://all-things-andy-gavin.com/video-games/making-crash/

Ah the speed runnin community is such a gem. So much effort, so much passion, for something that will disapear like a tear in the rain.

Completely agree. DK64 was forgettable to me where as the three snes games were masterpieces.

I consider DKC3 to be a masterpiece level work of AV art.

I prefer SNES DKC series over DK64. Speaking as someone that picked up the green DK64 N64 set.

DKC is great 2D platforming. DK64 was comprised of random minigames and unfortunately was not anywhere near the greatness of other 3D platforming games (Super Mario 64). If I wanted minigames, I'd play N64 Mario Party.

I have great memories of DK64. The theming stays unbeaten on its genre to this day thanks to the lightnings and cinematic. Kirkhope did a memorable OST that stays with you for decades (as this guy always does, tbh).

I managed to finish the game as a kid and it felt like an achievement to me. I was never bothered by the collectathon aspect. I just liked to replay same levels multiple times with different kongs.

But maybe as a kid I wasn’t playing for hours and I remember that for me the timespan to finish games such as DK64, Banjo-K/T or Mario 64 was accounted in _years_. Every completion of one of those games was a little event in my life.

In this context, DK64 was a perfect shot for me : nearly infinite adventure before fighting against King K.Rool in a memorable boss fight with the inimitable style of Rareware boss fights (I have fond memories of beating Gruntilda - and its skeleton).

I miss rareware.

I’d love to see a new DK with the « darker and stranger » theme of DK64 .

I enjoyed DK64 as a kid, but after replaying it recently, IMO it doesn't hold up too well. The collecting isn't bad (though the character switching makes it much worse). My main issue is the core gameplay/controls. Moving around feels unresponsive and sluggish, the action animations are really long, and hitboxes can be unintuitive. Banjo-Kazooie is better, but still not very snappy control-wise.

Super Mario 64, OTOH, holds up remarkably well: the controls flow so much faster and easier. It just feels natural to move around, with much less frustration. The camera is the biggest negative there, but that's a tough problem to solve for 3D open-world platformers, so I cut them some slack.

I’m 28 years old now and played this as a kid. I absolutely loved it. For me it was way more interesting than Mario 64 because it had 5 characters and a cohesive theme. Mario had many levels that all seemed like their own minigames where DK64 felt whole and like a single world.

Last year during lockdown, I spent a lot of time visiting my mom and broke out the old N64. Starting fresh I finally beat DK64 completely through, something I never accomplished when I was young.

Still today, DK64 is one of my favorite video games ever. The theming was top notch. The different musical styles and decorations are incredibly immersive, and as a kid, collectathons became extra competitive, not boring, especially if you had siblings.

> Mario had many levels that all seemed like their own minigames where DK64 felt whole and like a single world.

You must be joking. DK64 is filled to the brim with disjointed, character-specific minigames, including multiple instances of Simon Says. Mario is far more integrated.

Example: In Mario, the racing minigame is against a Koopa, across the whole level, using Mario's movement mechanics. In DK64, it's some strange talking car in a toy factory, never seen before in the entire series, and takes place on a dedicated, isolated track.

DK 64 makes for an excellent revisit as long as you use the mod that lets you change characters without having to track down a change barrel.

This is literally my biggest issue with the game. Man, in retrospect, playing it now, the change barrels were so obnoxious of a concept when they could've allowed the player to switch Kongs at any given time.

They would've worked ok if Rare didn't put items only one Kong can get in areas you have to open with a different Kong. That was just idiotic. "Open this door, walk thirty seconds down the tunnel, see the wrong color banana, turn around, go change characters, come back, collect bananas, go change characters again to unlock the next area."

I remember being 10 and writing in to complain about the term "hell" from the DK Rap. Pretty sure I got a response apologizing for the language, and indeed "Hell" was replaced with "Heck" in later renditions (e.g. in Super Smash Bros Melee).

There's another interview about DK64 floating around where somebody from Rare comments on all the complaints they received about it.

Another interesting tidbit from this article... I didn't realize the Expansion Pak was used for lighting. From what I'd heard before, they added the Expansion Pak as a requirement because it stopped random crashes from occurring. But they never figured out why exactly it fixed them.

Why did you complain?? I’m Confused.

I’m assuming a strict religious (US?) upbringing. The guys at Rare had probably never given it a second thought.

Not religious, but young enough that I still worried about using swears. But yes, US. I generally thought "hell" was considered a low-grade swear everywhere in US but could be wrong.

What the hell is wrong with hell?

Facetious of course, but genuinely curious why hell is a problem?

You reminded me of this scene from The Simpsons

https://youtu.be/ThcThv7Yaq0

maybe because reference to "hell" somewhat implicates and validates a diametral, christian-like eternalism which in turn undermines religious freedom?

Many Dutch people might curse with horrible diseases and inflictions (kanker - cancer, kolere - cholera, tyfus -typhoid), but religious Dutch people tend to frown upon ‘godverdomme’ - ‘goddamn’. Back when I was young one would often hear this curse word in Hollywood movies. My father, if he heard this word, would want us to change channels. However my father wouldn’t have been bothered hearing ‘hell’.

‘Godverdomme’ (goddamn) can be more appropriately translated into ‘god damn me’. It’s obvious why this might be offensive to a Christian.

I guess from the US Christian point of view maybe there’s some sort of similar association when people say ‘hell’ …

Different cultures have different sources of dirty words. US dirty words are based on sexual references (e.g. “fuck”), while other languages (like my native Norwegian) will have dirty words based on diabolics (e.g. “hell” or various names for the devil). Other languages will have yet other categories that most swear words are derived from.

DK64's use of the word "Hell" is notorious among American gamers of the N64 era, especially those with strict upbringings. I remember being mildly shocked by it as well.

Years later I learned that in the UK, where Rare was based, "Hell" was not considered a swear word as much as it is in the US. (God help you if you say "bloody" though - but I hear they've eased up on that too.) This was the first time I realised whether or not something was considered a "swear word" was cultural.

I’m surprised to find out this game ever received any negative feedback, me and all of the people I know loved and praised this game from day 1, was ahead of it’s time.

I hear it was an insane collectathon; colored bananas that you could only pick up with specific characters. People complained that parts of the game were more tedious than fun.

I never owned it, but I did play it at my friend's house whenever I got the opportunity. I loved it.

There were 5 different banana colors, 100each per level, and i think 5 coins each per level. Then there were two banana fairies to photograph per level, and 5 golden bananas per kong per level.

To beat the game you don’t need collect anywhere near all of them, and it felt reasonably balanced to actually beat the game.

I've been playing it on and off lately (on a real n64 no less) and I honestly think it's more of a level design problem than the actual collect a ton.

I've really enjoyed some levels (the factory level is nice!), while I despised others, such as the water one with a sunken ship. I specially hate when levels over rely on kong changes just to unlock things. They make you do four or five round trips just to hit all switches and pads related to each kong. This just seems lazy...

The factory level is nice because it has plenty of platforming (which in my opinion could use some more!) and they require each Kong platforming abilities to reach different places. That's the king of thing they should have focused more trough out the game. Miyamoto even said that climbing mountains is the thing that inspired SM64 levels, so I wished they had took that to hart in DK64.

I thought that the best levels were the first three - Jungle Japes, Angry Aztec, and Frantic Factory.

Fungi Forest and Crystal Caves are okay, but have way too much switching between characters.

Gloomy Galleon and Creepy Castle are tedious grinds no matter how you slice it.

The one that really drove me mad was the mandatory coin you got by playing the original DK arcade game, in order to face King Kruel. I never beat that as a child -- it was just too hard -- and only finally saw the credits when I played through it again after finishing my PhD on the Wii U's emulator. The save states were very useful!

I loved this game, and Banjo Kazooie / Banjo Tooie. So many happy memories.

Indeed, those three original DK levels are perhaps the most memorable part of the game from my childhood on account of how difficult they were for me.

I'm surprised to hear your surprise. My friends and I found the multiplayer fun, but found the single player mode to be a huge letdown (way too much aimless collecting and the camera angles were frustrating to deal with).

As kids we had the opposite opinion. Multiplayer was kinda bland but the single player was great.

me and my friends were total opposite. this was a single player game only. the multiplayer felt tacked on and not as strong as smash, goldeneye, or even as hectic as bomberman64

I definitely enjoyed the game as a kid, but I really don't see how it would be considered "ahead of it's time". IMO it marked the end of the collectathon subgenre. Banjo-Kazooie did essentially everything better than DK64.

The coconut gun story is so fantastic. A+

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