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Comment by yanw | Hacker News Reader

The Patriot Act seems to trump EU law in many cases, as security fears oft trump privacy concerns. It's a good discussion to be had for sure, am I'm sure EU parliament members will debate it in length:

They don't seem to have tried to hide anything. From another report: http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Google-also-passe...

The previous Microsoft admission that sparked this line of questioning: http://www.h-online.com/news/item/US-authorities-have-access...

Relevant: the Google Transparency Report: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/

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How does the "The Patriot Act seem to trump the EU law" ? In what sense?

I reject the idea that a US law is more important in Europe than an European one. If that is what has happened, then it is wrong.

If nothing was hidden, why is this policy only coming to light after the fact? There seems to be some degree of not wanting people to know.

I'm sure that a secret agreement between EU governments and the US have been reached, as is the case when security is involved.

Quite likely. That'd doesn't make it legal, necessary or even a good idea.

From the article "but they [the companies] can be forced to keep quiet about it in order to avoid exposing active investigations and alert those targeted by the probes."

There are a number of reasons why both the government and the companies would want to keep it secret:

1. Bad reputation for the company.

2. Bad reputation for the government on how much spying they actually are doing.

3. "keep quiet about it in order to avoid exposing active investigations" (this point I would think to be irrelevant in this case however)

> There are a number of reasons why both the government and the companies would want to keep it secret:

Which are much the same reasons why someone who has stolen a TV would want to keep that secret. It doesn't make it an idea worth encouraging.

The US companies can be forced by the US government to be kept quiet about the data they revealed. However, their subsidiaries are European companies, and therefore must comply to EU law, therefore they shouldn't share the data, and if they do, that's a crime, and if they furthermore keep quiet about it, it's an even bigger crime.

I think they should be punished by law to the fullest extent available. Along with everybody that was responsible and is within the reach of EU law.

Actually, the EU should request extradition of those responsible that reside in the US, even if they didn't break the US law. Fair, isn't it?

"The Patriot Act seems to trump the EU law in many cases"

For the parts of Google in the US - yes. For the parts of Google in the EU - no.

But the parts of Google in the US shouldn't have access to EU citizens' information if they're upholding the EU law

Well, there is that as well. But I guess most people are less concerned about Google US having access to their data (even if it is illegal) than their data being given to US intelligence agencies.

I don't understand why you think that the Patriot Act seems to trump the EU law. The companies have separate subsidiaries in Europe. What the Patriot Act seams to be doing is Piercing the corporate veil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil. Making the EU company break EU law.

> Making the EU company break EU law.

That's a very incorrect statement. Noone can make you break the law.

In this case, the correct interpretation is, preventing US companies from having EU subsidiaries. Which means that the US offices have to be a subsidiary of some overseas corporation (i.e. make Google incorporate in Europe, or possibly some tax&law haven, like Cayman islands (I don't actually know about the laws there, but I'm sure there is a place on earth that would be ok)).

The Patriot Act does not trump EU law here, because the Patriot Act is not in force in the EU, it is not the law of the land in the EU, and is not legal.

that report just cites the link you gave in your original comment.

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