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Comment by huhtenberg | Hacker News Reader

> from long distance rail to local city trams.

That's the part that makes a system like this subjectively unfair.

If my daily commute is a handful of bus stops and that guy's is a train for an hour from another city, then I am basically funding his commute by overpaying for my pass... even if it's cheaper to ride my bus with a pass than to buy a ticket for every ride.

Edit - I read the website as saying that this is going to be the only pass available in Austria. It looks like it's not, which, of course, makes far more sense in comparison.

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>If my daily commute is a handful of bus stops and that guy's is a train for an hour from another city

If your daily commute is a handful of bus stops for instance in the Vienna metro, then you can buy a yearly ticket just for the Vienna public transport for 365€.

https://www.wienerlinien.at/web/wiener-linien/jahreskarte

I mean this is Europe, and there's much less "this is unfair" versus "we are in this together".

Maybe compared to America, but really, no, there's still a LOT of individualistic thinking here

Even on public transport, longer commutes are relatively environmentally unfriendly when compared to shorter commutes (in the medium-to-long run). So regardless of individualism, it would generally be a public benefit to encourage shorter commutes.

Yes, but it's not exactly that you have a lot of choice for where you work, for example.

I suppose it depends on the job and the market, but many people do have a lot of choice where they work (and where they live).

I think we disagree on the "many". I would say "some" instead. Most people i know don't have a choice: they're employed in a shop somewhere or work from specific offices. Of course, the HN crowd may be more exposed to work-from-home, but that's still alien to a great part of the population, especially those who work the most precarious jobs.

I'm not sure how it is in Austria, but here in the US, people on the more "precarious" end of the spectrum (non-management retail and hospitality workers) have a quit rate of (very roughly) ~50% per year. So generally they do seem to be aware that they can choose a different place to work. Do you live somewhere very rural?

Yes i reside in a less populous area (south France) where you can be happy to find a job at all, if that's what you're looking for in life. But from my understanding of bigger agglomerations: there's a high turnover rate in precarious jobs, but just because you can afford to find another precarious job elsewhere doesn't mean you get the privilege to choose where precisely. I hear in suburbs of capitals like Berlin or Paris it's not uncommon for people to travel 2-4h daily to work and back. Chances are if you switch jobs, you might have the same travel times, but to a different location.

Hm yes, my perspective is probably quite non-representative. Thank you for the insight!

Thank you for asking, that was a very pertinent question!

People living far from city centers usually live in bigger house/flats and less dense districts. That's usually what pull people to move to the suburbs. Some do this because of the cost of renting/buy a big place in inner city but it's the same argument.

The problem is, living in a large place and sparser environment has a HUGE social cost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl#Effects which is a major contributor to the ongoing biodiversity collapse (which is at least as big of a threat as climate change).

"We are in this together" but not just to get people to drop private cars. We must commute much less (however clean your mode of transport) so how is it compatible with cheap transport in the long term?

Or we put hard limit on urban sprawl but that will increase the cost of living in suburban/rural places even further than having people pay for their commute distance.

I mean, yes, but that's like saying "all you can eat" buffets are unfair.

The only "fix" would be to never offer fixed-rate pricing.

It's a strange complaint, to me.

If there's a buffet that serves a caviar and I only eat unpeeled cucumbers, then I'm not likely to go to that buffet.

Agreed. Many consumers will still pay-as-you-go. I fail to see the problem.

I am pretty sure that you still can get a monthly/yearly ticket for your local area. These are usually between 50-100 € in Germany. In Vienna you pay 1 € per day, so around 350 € for a year.

The idea here is that you have one ticket that can be used everywhere in the country, so you probably would only get it if you travel more than a local commute on a regular base.

If your daily commute is only a few bus stops, you'll find it way cheaper to get a pass from the local transportation company. This is for people who are travelling a lot (like commuting between cities on a daily or weekly basis).

> If my daily commute is a handful of bus stops and that guy's is a train for an hour from another city, then I am basically funding his commute by overpaying for my pass...

In that case you would not buy this pass, instead opting for a local or regional pass or one tailored to that specific commute.

I've never been to Austria, but I suspect this more limited pass you prefer has been available for a long time in all relevant locales. Certainly that is my experience with other public transit systems.

A look at this classic Viennese ticket machine would convince most people that paying more to never touch it again is not only fair but necessary and effectively a discount:

https://live.staticflickr.com/1096/1427525859_9f6fcf046f_k.j...

But if you only require local travel, why would you buy a national pass?

It sounded like it's going to be the only pass available in Austria. I must've read the site wrong.

Hmm, I wonder what I am 'overpaying' by having close to 1/2 of the land area of my town dedicated to cars instead of trees and grass, just so other people can live in the suburbs.

Pretty much all local city transport networks in Europe offer yearly subscriptions. If you just need that, that's already an option.

If the Kilmaticket is not the only pass now available in Austria, then it makes far more sense.

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