People also suffer 'long flu', study shows | Hacker News Reader

People also suffer 'long flu', study shows

bbc.com

66 pointsmrfusion24 comments

Chronic fatigue syndrome has long been known to often start with a viral infection (for example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21756995/). Other issues can arise as a consequence of viral infections as well (e.g., thyroid problems). I don’t think this is well known amongst the general public, even if it is known in the medical field. This may be a reason why people are surprised about “long-covid” as if long term effects are something unique to the SARS-COV-2 virus.

Is the mechanism behind this understood?

Patients test negative on PCR tests for the virus afterwards, so presumably the cause is no longer the virus directly, but some kind of irreparable damage.

I think no one really knows. My thought is given the number of known serious autoimmune disorders that are possibly triggered by viral infections, wouldn't be a stretch that there are milder ones that aren't easily observable. A lot of brain <--> hormonal stuff is poorly understood.

I learned this the hard way back in highschool. I took extra gym classes, but during the winter I caught the flu and was really sick for a week or so.

Back at school, it was immediately obvious that my body was not where it was before. Concentrating was more difficult for a while, but the real difference was that during gym classes I got exhausted almost immediately.

What really struck me was that this exhaustion stayed with me for several months. It took me almost 4 months to get back to the level I was before the flu.

I've had that experience very much in mind during these covid days.

Yes, and many folks are familiar with the lesser malaise and "cough that doesn't go away" for six weeks or so. You'll often see "so tired of being sick!" posts around February.

My anecdotal survey is that they don't take great care of themselves in the first place with diet/excercise, but also are highly likely to be vitamin D deficient. Factors that prolong recovery.

> "cough that doesn't go away" for six weeks or so

I had always assumed that was because I have asthma, I didn't realize other people get this as well.

It's relatively common in the winter, sometimes a bacterial infection however.

I wonder if this is a continuous effect that eventually fades away, or a one-time permanent “debuff”. Did you have to practice a lot to get back to your level, or did it resolve by itself?

It's really hard to answer this question experimentally.

I suspect that of a pair of identical people who spent 1 hour in the gym every day for a lifetime, one of whom got a long term viral infection, the infected one would never again match the performance of the uninfected.

depends on what was the injury exactly.

some issues can be recovered from completely, some are permanent.

It can be permanent damage up to the point of permanent paralysis, or even death.

So yes, there is no guarantees.

In some people it can trigger an autoimmune disease as well, that's also for life.

I wasn't super fit, but about average. As I recall the effect was quite powerful for a long time, and then gradually tapered off.

It was just at the end before the summer break that I managed to do the same numbers as before when running and similar. And this was with the same hours per week of practice, though of course with much less intensity due to the exhaustion.

Of course there's no control-me, so can't say if there was a permanent effect as such.

Not just influenza either. We've known for decades that other viral infections can cause long term symptoms. Epstein-Barr Virus has been frequently implicated.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2540242/

I have 'long flu', after having an adverse reaction to general anesthetic in the early 1990s I caught the Asian flu soon after and just never stopped being sick. I'm allergic to most things one can be allergic to, have MCAS, chronic inflammation, fatigue, etc. Not fun! But I was a long-accepted casualty of lax public health policy when it comes to the flu. Hopefully we will take the flu more seriously in future!

All these articles seem to be like, "We ignored post-infectious Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for a few decades, and now we're just discovering it."

see: Chronic Lyme, Epstein-Barr, et. al.

I agree, medicine has been really terrible at actually listening to what patients say. It ignored black peoples pain and ignored differences due to gender. Even now there are probably doctors saying long covid is all in patients heads (even after the new billions in grants to study long covid). Part of the cause seems to be just human prejudice. Another part seems to come from insertions of moral judgement into medicine ("we are not going to look for a cure for alcohol damage to the liver because then people would just drink all the time"). Doctors are often peoples only hope and so they get treated like gods and it goes to their heads. Have you noticed all the doctors saying recently "we need to be humble" with respect to COVID-19? They seem to be literally telling themselves they don't know all the answers because they forgot that. Why have doctors been so slow to computerize? Decades of patient observations and records that could have been of very high value have been wasted. My opinion anyway, and I'm sure not every doctor is the same.

I'm glad this is hitting the mainstream. I have asthma and when I get any flu it lasts and lasts in my lungs for ages. When I was younger and did nothing to avoid it I'd basically cough brutally all winter long. Due to the pandemic I've had the longest healthy stretch (no flu of any kind or cold) in my life and it is great.

I caught Swine Flu in 2009 and really struggled for a few months after but it mostly went away. I can still think of several things that still aren't "right again" even years later though. Worst 2 weeks of my life, hands down.

i dont know. i have had this thing where i don't really smell anything unless the odor is hot. this has been the case for essentially all my life and my father had the same thing. i do mouth breathing during the day and during my sleep because i had my stuffy nose growing up, like always. running nose during the day and a stuffy nose during night time.

now whenever someone tells me "eh. i have a cold, its bad" im like "no you dont have a bad case of cold. you dont know what its like to have a cold".

i cannot smell food and flowers like others, and incense and perfume makes me nauseous.

dunno. i seem normal but i am not sure its flu, it must be something else but not flu. its not like i have ever had any "clarity" moments where i can just smell, i really dont.

This probably explains the exhaustion (about a month) I had after a bout of flu a few years ago. I thought that it was because of growing older, good to know that isn't the main reason! :-P

I've had long colds. A cold that's not even severe -- just moderate -- can leave me with bronchitis that sometimes lasts months after the initial infection fades.

Worth pointing out that Covid is considerably more nasty than influenza, even the 1918 strain. Had it been Covid, not H1N1, at that time, the death toll would likely have been of biblical proportions - no supplemental oxygen available then.

This is an inaccurate assessment. Though weighed down by infant mortality, an average American would not expect to reach the age where COVID becomes significantly dangerous (55-60 years old).

1918 flu did not discriminate by age like covid does.

See: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/09/covid-19-vaccine-sta...

In the 1910s, the typical lifespan of those who did not die in infancy or childhood was similar to day: 70-85 years. But yes, certainly a significant chance of child mortality or having died in the Great War.

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