Comment by georgewsinger | Hacker News Reader

Comment by georgewsinger | Hacker News Reader

This is such a great post, and really covers the spiritual aspects of what it's like to work for prolonged periods in VR. Glad to see Immersed getting traction, and taking VR forward. We all benefit from this.

For Linux enthusiasts (possibly the OP as as well): SimulaVR (www.simulavr.com) is working on a portable Linux VR headset with office/programmer productivity as the #1 goal. It will offer the following advantages over the OP's Immersed setup:

1. *More than double the text quality.* We are making a headset with more than double the PPD (pixels-per-degree) of the Oculus Quest 2. This is extremely important for facilitating multi-hour VR sessions without eye fatigue.

2. *Proper window management.* SimulaVR is a fully functional Linux window manager (built over Wayland/wlroots infrastructure). Unlike Immersed, it isn't just emulating screens on another host OS. This means you get an unlimited number of windows, popups can (when desired) behave as new windows, etc. No hacks are required to get this sort of functionality. It will also later on facilitate proper 3D/VR applications being able to share the same space with 2D applications.

3. *Proper portability.* Our headset is going to be fully portable (with a detachable compute pack in the back), and won't require you to tether your headset to another computer over WiFi, or take along an additional laptop just to get your VR computer working somewhere else.

4. *Proper hackability.* Simula is built over FOSS, and is not tethered to the Facebook platform. If there's something you want to change or tweak, you're free to do so.

One thing Immersed has though is immediate availability and scalability (there are an unlimited supply of Oculus Quests floating around :). We're likely going to be constrained on the number of headsets we can produce, at least initially, and will have to queue first to the early users.

We (and the industry at large) also have a lot of work ahead of us to improve upon a VR-centric UX (incorporating proper tiling management, and other things). Very exciting.

OP here! I've been keeping a very close eye on the SimulaVR project for a while. I agree with most of what you've got here, and would love to be able to try it out in the future.

One question I've got about the window management system - I make heavy use of virtual desktops so I can swap several windows out simultaneously (all my source code on one screen, my database GUIs on another, etc.). I'd run out of room using a spatially tiled VR interface unless I had "sets" or other groups of windows (or different vantage points); how is that being approached? Is there a "virtual desktop" equivalent?

Any chance of coopting other hardware as part of your development/deployment strategy? (Vive Focus 3, maybe?)

I'll definitely continue to watch the project - please let me know if I can ever be of service in the endeavor. You guys are building an awesome future.

Hi ptom.

1. Simula is planning on adding a window tiling/window grouping dynamic to its UX. Agreed this is a useful feature, and we've heard from other people as well that this would improve things.

A short-term hack though, since Simula is a fully functioning window manager, is to simply launch another window manager inside Simula as a client (e.g., launching i3 or xfce4 inside Simula, and using it as a way to group applications together).

2. We've been unable to get Linux support from other VR manufacturers in order to run Simula on other hardware. In fact, our initial goal was to only do this (so that we could focus on the software only), but eventually decided it was better to just build our own headset (in particular a high-fidelity one that is uniquely suited for office/programmer productivity).

Would love to stay in contact. Your office VR setup really captures the spirit of the VR age.

The current build of SimulaVR[1] does support workspaces, accessed via Super+number keyboard shortcuts. I use them like a higher-level alt+tab, to switch between a set of text editor windows (super+1) and a set of browser and terminal windows displaying test output (super+2).

[1] https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula/tree/dev#usage

What is more less the price range you expect for your headset?

Gargoyles from Snow Crash are now becoming a reality.

Smartphones have already made aspects of being a gargoyle common to society, outside of the AR bits.

True. But AR/VR are the most fun bits.

Wow, I noticed that it even has Tobii Eye Tracking. That's extremely exciting imo. It would allow me to code fully hands-free with something like Serenade/Talon, and just use the eye tracking to move the mouse.

Can the headset be connected to a Windows PC? I'm running very heavy stuff when developing, and need all of the the horsepower available. On top of that I also need access to certain software that don't exist on Linux.

Our goal is to make it tetherable to other [Windows] PC's for gaming, etc. Though getting Windows to host SimulaOS isn't yet supported. Your use case has been flagged though. This might be something we need to do down the line.

I have been eyeing the xr3 headset, it has a really good pixel density and arrangement, to the point it's unreal, but it's really expensive.

But if you have enough money to burn, you can taste the future now.

Simula looks like how ptoper open VR should be. If (and/or when) they can pull it of is still a question though.

What is your webXR support going to be? I think for business applications, webXR is going to be the communication medium of choice.

Nothing beats HTML for expressiveness and transmit-ability, and with frameworks like A-Frame you already have an enormous amount of software written for your headset.

Between you guys and Frame.work, it feels like hardware might get inspiring again. Good luck!

solving vergence-accommodation conflict could also be important for long term use fatigue, which no current or near future headset even attempts to solve.

Is there even a prototype?

Question: what happens when you open a webpage that shows 3D content?

Would be great if there is support between navigation of 3D content and VR headset.

If no support between them, there will be a virtual window embedding e.g https://threejs.org/examples/#webgl_decals , which is weird

ideally it would render stereoscopically but I imagine since most 3D applications control the camera themselves this will be difficult to make work across all things. 3D using css may work since it is up to the browser how it gets rendered.

What IPD range are you looking at?

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