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Comment by sgt | Hacker News Reader

TBH I still think Brexit is a good choice for Britain. The EU is a terribly inefficient and hopeless organization (but perhaps I am a bit biased, I've always been opposed to the EU because it's far too heavy weight).

Of course, they will suffer economically for a while, but that was part of the game with Brexit.

The voters however - were slightly lied to regarding the immediate downsides. It's probably important to keep the big picture in mind.

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It absolutely was not the right choice for the UK (not just Britain, don't forget about Northern Ireland). The EU has definitely shown itself to be quick when it needs to be, and in general has improved life for the average person. There are nothing but downsides in the immediate and long-term future for the UK without the EU — these economic consequences are not easily solvable, and the Tories have not shown themselves capable of actually solving these problems.

The UK had a very privileged place in the EU before, and was able to punch above their weight. When they inevitably rejoin they certainly won't be able to hold that special status again.

As a Brit, I think "slightly lied to" is a huge under-exaggeration. Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies, for example the NHS money thing, specific claims about removing "foreigners", and promises of rebuilding of British-only enterprises.

I'm sorry but you can't know that. The vast majority of people had probably made their decision before the messaging kicked in. Also you can claim the same the other way. The only reason people voted to remain is because of the scare of no drinking water, no medicines, fear of an instant market crash etc. Both sides can and were manipulated to some extent by false messaging that never came to be, but certainly not everyone voted the way they did as a result of that messaging.

You’re replying to someone stating what others have told them, not making an assertion based on something they ‘know’. Did you reply to the wrong comment perhaps?

I seriously doubt this claim 'Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies' - that seems to be a coping mechanism for anybody on the opposite side of a debate.

If I had voted remain you could say I had done so on lies if my motivation was to prevent house prices dropping by 18% [1] - where as actually they have moved about 18% higher [2]. There were no specific claims about removing foreigners, only the factually accurate statement that we could move to a points based immigration system if we wanted to.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referend... [2] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index

I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe

'Literally everyone'? Not me, Joe - so now your previous comment is incorrect.

I meant people I spoke to in person

> I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe

Might it not be fairer to state the sentence either as this:

> I'm sorry that the reality I want to believe does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe

... or this ...

> I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up with the reality you experience

All in good faith of the discussion.

I don't think so personally. I see it based on what I know versus what they know. I know about my reality, whereas they want to believe something different about my reality. I'm not saying they want to believe something about their _own_ reality, I'm saying that it is about my own. I had an experience and they are saying "no, you didn't", which is them projecting their belief onto my experience of reality. So I think that both of your examples do not express what I meant.

You have literally stated that any view which differs from yours is based on lies. Let me know how that works out for you.

As an aside, this sort of attitude is probably why you ‘better educated’ people lost the vote.

No, I stated that every person I personally know who voted for Brexit did so primarily based on lies. It is strange that you cannot understand the difference.

I can't say this is true for everyone that voted, but can sadly confirm that I know for many this is true, certainly had a significant impact in my opinion.

> The EU is a terribly inefficient and hopeless organization

Compared to what? Efficiency always scaled poorly with size. For what it's worth, bureaucracies of US Federal government, not to mention those of China, India, Russia etc. are far worse, it seems.

It's not about the EU's throughput of things, but things it enables. Things like efficient allocation of resources via a single economic area, for example.

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