Tesla NDA warns ‘Self-Driving’ Beta Testers ‘People Want Tesla to Fail’ | Hacker News Reader

Tesla NDA warns ‘Self-Driving’ Beta Testers ‘People Want Tesla to Fail’

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24 pointscamjohnson2614 comments

It seems to me that Elon has pulled the pin in the grenade and is now standing there daring the regulators to do something. I think he has realized FSD is a lot further off than they are still saying - and it's an out for him to be able to say "we were sooooo close you'd totally have FSD if it weren't for the NHSTA!". Him prodding the director of the NTSB by posting her wikipedia page while ignoring their calls/requests seems supportive of this. If you were trying to avoid negative findings you'd be responsive to the investigation and recommendations. They've been setting up the "regulator" excuse for years even though no one has ever stood between them and releasing anything they talked about "regulatory approval".

Also - this seems right from the cult handbook - it's not legitimate criticism, it's the enemies who want the company to fail.

Tesla from top to fan has the most insane victim complex. They got years of completely un-critical press coverage about future promises Musk made. They are valued multiple times higher than companies that make more cars in 2 weeks than they make in a year. Their customer base is the most tolerant group of people in the entire world, people have returned leases with "full self driving" that was never delivered, then turned around and bought new cars. This is a company that has been completely coddled from the start.

I think it's spot on that they want the regulators to block them now. Without that there's two options at this point, either they tell all the drivers they're not good enough, i.e. only 100-score ones get FSD for now, or the PR disaster of FSD accidents, extremely likely from the videos on YouTube.

Government stepping in would give all the customer angst an outlet that's not Tesla. Their marketing materials have always blamed the government (see "driver is just there for legal purposes" on tesla.com/autopilot) so this wider release may just be a way of forcing the government to make it true.

“ Motherboard has learned that every FSD Beta tester signs a non-disclosure agreement in order to be a member of the Early Access Program (EAP), a community of Tesla aficionados the company selects. This NDA, the language of which Motherboard confirmed with multiple beta testers, specifically prohibits EAP members from speaking to the media or giving test rides to the media. It also says: "Do remember that there are a lot of people that want Tesla to fail; Don't let them mischaracterize your feedback and media posts." It also encourages EAP members to "share on social media responsibly and selectively...consider sharing fewer videos, and only the ones that you think are interesting or worthy of being shared.”

> consider sharing fewer videos, and only the ones that you think are interesting or worthy of being shared

Sounds more like an influencer agreement than a non disclosure agreement.

I don’t see anything new here. Musk hates clickbait and doesn’t trust the media. Remember the Top Gear fiasco with the original roadster? He has not forgotten this. He even initially wanted to allow biographer Vance to write a book about him only on condition that he would be allowed to review the draft before publication. You may see this as proof of how controlling Musk is. Then again, you’ve probably never had anyone write articles about you that 1) purposely mischarachterize you and your work and 2) do not give you a chance to explain your point of view. In the old days, a company would have been able to keep the spread of untruths at bay by the use of lawyers. But if you tried that path today, you’d be bleeding yourself to death. This is an arms race. And Tesla plays the hand it’s got. I don’t see what is wrong with that.

> 2) do not give you a chance to explain your point of view.

You can't eliminate the department meant to answer media queries and then cry that they don't tell your side. He chose to remove the PR department.

> 1) purposely mischarachterize you and your work

That seems to have gone in Musk's favor more than not. Most people think Tesla makes their own batteries (they don't), their cars drive themselves (they don't), they have advanced manufacturing (by every metric they are terribly inefficient and after all the talk of air friction and alien dreadnoughts their model 3 ramp was pure incompetence compared to how other car companies just turn their lines on once validation is done). Musk's lies have been uncritically reported for years.

Honestly, even look at HN articles:

The 2nd highest Tesla article is "All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware" from FIVE YEARS AGO...

The top one is "Tesla Cybertruck" - from two years ago.

Third highest - Tesla Roadster - 4 years ago

6th - Tesla Semi - 4 years ago

None of those exist for public sale, all of them got reported and mass upvoted by an uncritical audience. If you fall for Musk's victim complex you're a sucker IMO.

4) FSD. Have you seen the videos of the FSD beta? And you’re not impressed, right? Thing is: This is technology that did not exist a few years ago (just like electric cars with the performance and safety at the level of a Model S, X or 3). “BUT”, I hear you saying, “they are behind schedule”. Well, who cares? Some things take longer than a human expected. Not exactly news. Give me a log of your previous five projects along with the estimates you had how long it would take. Then we can compare it to Musk. Also, when was the last time you built something that nobody has ever built before? Are you going to see all obstacles in advance? You fault Musk for being too optimistic. But how would he have started Tesla and SpaceX if he wasn't? There's a large crowd of people who feel inspired by that optimism. That's why they forgive Musk and Tesla when things take longer. Because they can see how hard the team is working to achieve what they have said they would do.

Really, if the things Musk promises would never happen, I'd be right there with you snickering about this "marketing genius". Yet, so far, pretty much everything he said he would do he did. Based on that track record, I have zero doubt that FSD, the Cybertruck, the Semi, and all of those things that are "late" will eventually be there. And when they are, they will be best in class. Again.

It really, really puzzles me. Here we have a man who works like crazy. Who revolutionized not just one, but several industries. Who has created billions of value. Whom you never see on a yacht or at the Taj Mahal or at a beach with a trophy wife. And yet you compulsively have to bet against him, and explain away anything he does by saying that he's just doing it for the attention.

Musk has a surplus of attention. And he has a surplus of money. These things, by definition, cannot be his motivation. If you think they are, be careful that you're not just applying your own mode of valuation - seeing the world not as it is... but as you are.

Tesla’s FSD is clearly unsafe, so prohibiting users from publishing demonstrably unsafe behaviour from it seems apropos for them

Is, say, Apple known for more liberal beta test NDA's? Or do I have some dim association there cuz Apple [pro,per]secuted people for leaking things like pictures or commenting on antenna problems?

I’ve never seen Apple have its customers pay tens of thousands extra for a feature, release it to them years after it was promised, and then wrap it up in an NDA.

The entire iPhone lineup not on your radar? It describes Apples' approach to taking features from others and giving them as "breathtaking" innovations 2-4 years later for a lump sum of now $1500/phone.

Don't like the car or the price then don't buy it.

Notoriously, Apple did the opposite, ostensibly for SOX compliance reasons. I’m pretty sure I paid 12 euro or so at some point to enable 802.11n (or g?) at some point; the claim was that they couldn’t recognise revenue for something that didn’t exist yet, so had to charge separately after the standard was completed.

(Apparently it was n, and also cheaper than I remember : https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/apples-802-11n-accountin...

Oof they should have had an NDA about the NDA

Did they hire Trump's legal team or something? This seems unusually... grievance-y for a legal document from an actual company.

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