Hacker News Reader

Comment by MrDresden | Hacker News Reader

> "It's a free service with no actual income stream, driven by donations."

Completely agree with this point. Unless you are paying for the service (by being the product or via donations) you have no particular right to get upset with the creators of said service.

> "What do you expect?"

Professionalism and an understanding of the impact this will have on Signal's users. Some will be cut off from necessary communication channels while others might literally have their life depended on the service working.

This very delayed response from Signal, coupled with some of the stranger behaviour of the last year and inability to host my own servers is really pushing me towards looking at Matrix as an alternative.

And for the record, I've donated to Signal for the last 3 years.

View on HN

> others might literally have their life depended on the service working

If your life literally depends on a service, make sure to pay for that service. Also, make sure to have a backup.

While you are correct, I just want to clarify that by that I was talking about people living as subjects of totalitarian regimes or in places where their lives may truly be on the line if what they say in private would ever get out.

These individuals may not have the means or the option of paying for the service (either due to being blocked or by potentially exposing them selves to said regime if they would).

This isn't really the primary issue with Signal, as the protocol is pretty well audited, tested, and cryptanalyzed. THE issue with Signal is using real phone numbers as identifiers.

I know this point has been made repeatedly, but it's important to beat the drum, since it's recommended for journalists and dissidents, and that this "feature" will quite possibly get you killed if you're a dissident in a totalitarian system with a very simple two-part process:

1. All it takes is ONE of your fellow dissidents to turn snitch (or be tortured, or have their phone cracked) and disclose all their contacts.

2. Burners are NOT anonymous. Everything from location analysis to CCTV footage from the physical place you bought the SIM will give you away.

Signal is an obvious honeypot. Moxie's total refusal to even allow the option to use throwaway identifiers while burning precious development time on silly things like emoji support makes their purpose very evident.

Sure, use Signal to send cat pics. But stay far, far, far away if your life or freedom is at risk.

I agree with you.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are non technical people who are using Signal in places where they believe it will protect them.

And I am not cynical enough to be ready to say that they are not being protected in some way by using Signal rather than say email/telegram/whatsapp/facebook etc.

But the points you raise stand, and I agree. I would never use Signal for things that are highly sensitive.

But we are tech literate individuals. We are a wast minority.

Many services your life depends on can't be paid for, or rather - you can't decide whether and how much you pay for them, and thus cannot increase their reliability through payment.

One set of examples is online services and apps like Facebook, GMail, WhatsApp and such (although you could argue whether your life actually depends on any of these).

Another set of examples are things like transportation infrastructure, fire-fighting services, etc.

Fun facts:

- I pay for mail service from Google.

- I don't depend on whatsapp. I have multiple alternatives, including SMS.

- I still have Facebook and LinkedIn accounts that I never actually use.

- I have multiple fire extinguishers, because I don't depend on fire fighters to arrive on time, they're a last resort.

My biggest dependency, by far, is the power grid. I really need to look into battery storage for my solar. Because my life literally depends on that... Ooh. And the supply chain for groceries I guess.

So what is the paid alternative encrypted messaging platform that has any uptime sla?

How about Element Matrix Services (EMS) ? Their Gold and Platinum plans have SLAs

Gold is an SLA of one business day which basically makes it a non-starter. Platinum - maybe? But I'm guessing based on how they have it phrased that your commit will measure in the thousands of dollars a month minimum if they'd even entertain you as a private individual. In their own words:

>For governments, federated organisations & regulated industries

But you can't sue them when you are dead.

I definitely agree with you on a user level. But on a practical level, I wouldn't want to be on 24/7 pager duty if I was part of signal, not getting paid much, if anything for it.

I don't think matrix is there yet as a good replacement, at least for my use case. It's just not mature enough.

I know, chicken and egg problem, but I don't want to be debugging my primary form of communication. It's too important.

Is the salary that Signal employees receive known? They may just as well be very well compensated.

After all there is a well funded foundation backing the development and operations of the platform.

I would hope they are paid well. It seems like the type of product that benefits from fewer, more experienced (expensive) engineers.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com