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Comment by jlduan | Hacker News Reader

Nuclear submarine deal with Australia, now portable nuclear reactors. I really hope the world is not heading for nuclear arms race.

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Well given that both are about nuclear power not nuclear weapons this comment makes no sense really.

It's kind of sad that everyone seams to think that nuclear power is the same as nuclear weapons, and the used stuff could be interchanged without any problems, and that a commercial nuclear power-station can produce weapon grade stuff without any problems.

Is it just disinterest? Or the thinking that Nuclear is bad overall?

The anti-nuclear crowd willfully conflates the two.

How can the be a nuclear arms race if everyone already finished the race decades ago and there's enough nuclear bombs to turn the whole world into a wasteland?

It's easy, if you invest in weapons who could potentially stop the other side from delivering the "atomic-payload" you force them to make them "better/different", this is how you start a race without even touching your actual arsenal.

And that's why the US should not place anti icbm stuff near the russian border (turky, poland enc).

Actually that's why the US shouldn't have unilaterally left the ABM treaty in 2002, but by now the Russians are a fair bit along in developing nuclear powered cruise missiles. Who knows, they might be working on (fractional) orbiting nuclear weapons too, they've deployed such systems before.

>Actually that's why the US shouldn't have unilaterally left the ABM treaty in 2002

Absolutely on your side with that.

Maybe we should hope for a nuclear energy race!

It's pretty close already, what with China building out it's bunker ICBM stock, Russia developing it's crazy nuclear torpedo and cruise missile and the USA gearing up to spend a few trillions on new ICBMs (because apparently making sure that Wyoming, Montana, and North Dakota get nuked in a war is of national security importance).

> Nuclear submarine deal with Australia

Thanks. WTF, I'd not heard of this, not that I read much news these days. (Sydney here.) Apparently both the main parties support it. But the public weren't consulted about this major policy shift. Australia doesn't have nuclear power, let alone nuclear weapons, and doesn't like nuclear-powered ships visiting... now suddenly we're gonna have our own, maybe. I think this will be unpopular. I've always admired NZ's anti-nuclear stance, and have never spoken to a Australian who doesn't also. Gee, I haven't felt so motivated to protest for a long time.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/australia-nuclear-sub...

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/16/austr...

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/anti-nuke-campaigners-p...

https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/no-nuclear-submarines-s...

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-s-fading-a...

> But the public weren't consulted

What does this mean - a public referendum on the deal? As someone who hasn't been following Australian politics, do you guys hold referenda for big purchase agreements?

> do you guys hold referenda for big purchase agreements

I assume that's a joke? Not just a "big purchase agreement", but as that ABC article begins, "Australia is embarking on its most significant change of defence and strategic direction in decades", because the US and UK want it, not because Australians want it, I guess. It's a total reversal of a policy that's lasted, well, must be 50 years. We've had a succession of remarkably cretinous Liberal[0] governments since 2013, from whom nothing is that surprising—I keep reading about their dreadful decisions on HN lately. But this is pretty surprising.

[0] i.e. the Liberal Party, in Australia the main party of the right.

It means it was top secret until the day it was announced, so the big opposition party were briefed the day before it was announced and there's been absolutely no public discussion at all.

The cabinet just made a huge strategic choice on their own and gamble on being able to sway the rest of society.

The nuclear deal has already spooked Indonesia and Malaysia might need to build counter attacks against Australia, now India and Japan most likely also want nuclear subs. Well done white Anglo nations, really well done still acting like its 19th century and can dictate what happens in Asia.

Except neither of these things are nuclear arms. They are nuclear fueled systems.

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