Comment by ilamont | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ilamont | Hacker News Reader

Most recently, the apparel world has been roiled by revelations that cotton from Xinjiang, in China, is being grown and processed using forced labour. The scandal implicated some of the world’s biggest brands, including H&M, Nike, Adidas and Gap, and prompted sanctions and restrictions in the west on imports made of Xinjiang cotton. Last August, not long after the US banned all imports containing Xinjiang cotton, US customs authorities asked Oritain for a pilot demonstration of its cotton-tracing abilities.

This is one of the reasons China is going particularly ballistic over Xinjiang cotton. In the past supply chain controversies could be "fixed" relatively easy with bogus local inspections, fake documentation, or supplier shell games, but the science here is harder to fool.

This not just an issue for cotton. As the article notes, fake fish can be spotted with genetic analysis, and that's a global problem with very local consequences. The Boston Globe did a big report on this a few years back, concluding many local restaurants and markets in Eastern Massachusetts were flat-out lying about the fish they were selling:

Ken’s Steak House in Framingham again served Pacific cod instead of a more expensive Atlantic species. Slices of fish sold as white tuna at Sea To You Sushi in Brookline were again actually escolar, an oily species nicknamed the “ex-lax’’ fish by some in the industry because it can cause digestion problems. H Mart, an Asian supermarket chain found to have sold mislabeled red snapper last year, this time was selling inexpensive freshwater Nile perch as pricier ocean grouper at its Burlington store.

https://www3.bostonglobe.com/business/specials/fish/?arc404=...

Just to nitpick slightly there is no such thing as white tuna. What’s called white tuna is always escolar. Albacore is a pinkish or off white tuna but I’ve never seen it listed as white tuna at a restaurant.

Out of curiosity, I wondered if the FDA agreed. And they do:

https://www.cfsanappsexternal.fda.gov/scripts/fdcc/index.cfm...

The FDA does warn against using the name "white tuna," but they sure don't seem to care in practice.

The FDA cares very little about most things in practice. So long as they've issued warnings (ass-covering), they'll let mislabelling and false advertising go on willy nilly.

They only get serious if people get sick. Using the wrong fish generally isn't going to make people sick.

Back in university, I had a class that required I get up early some mornings so I walked past a lot of sushi places as fish was getting delivered. Lots of places getting boxes labelled escolar, but nobody had anything but tuna on the menu.

The fake fish situation is well documented in the book Real Food/Fake Food

http://www.realfoodfakefood.com/real-food-fake-food-book-by-...

Also makes me think that if two different varieties of fish, steak etc. are so indistinguishable to the end consumer that you have to rely on genetic analysis to separate them, what warrants the massively inflated price of one over the other?

If I order a $500 bottle of wine but am served from a $50 bottle, and neither I nor anyone else at the table can tell the difference, did I not still get the $500 "experience" I wanted?

I mean, to be fair, it's not like you're sampling the fish at the market. Plus, most people don't assume they're being lied to; your thought might very well be, "huh, this is some pretty bad Atlantic cod" instead of "this must be the inferior Pacific cod!"

Specifically with fish, it depends on what you’re trying to fool with what.

But I also wonder if the way most fish seems to be cooked in Western cuisine — fillet’d and seared/fried — masquerades the physical qualities that differentiate types of fish.

I love eating fish but I refuse to buy fillets because of all the fraudulent activity. At least when I buy fish whole I know what I’m getting (on a species to species level at least. Farmed/Wild/Specific region is trickier to spot)

Red Snappers and Nile Perches are very different looking fish, but you’d have to buy them whole.

I’m not sure I’ve ever gone somewhere (for retail fish) where you could buy a whole fish where they wouldn’t filet it for you while you are standing there. Of course those bones and head make good stock so I try usually buy whole fish anyway.

Go to Korean or Chinese supermarkets — fish served whole.

I’ve only been to Midwest and east coast Asian markets, but I’ve never had a request to break down a fish turned down. If you are having trouble finding something your area H-Mart (which I think is pretty ubiquitous) will break down a fish you select in a manner you specify.

I wonder how much "crab" in restaurants is crab.

On the other hand, I wonder how much "seafood soup" is actually the real deal (sharkfin soup)

Why does seafood soup imply shark fin soup? Are you not concerned with the ethical concerns around sharkfin soup?

I was told restaurants that used to serve sharkfin soup served "seafood soup" after sharkfin was made illegal.

The gist of what I was saying was that crab -> fake, and ironically "seafood soup" was actually genuine sharkfin

Unless I’m cracking open the shell of a 8 legged creature with claws I don’t believe for a minute I’m truly being served crab.

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