Ask HN: What're some great cities to live for $2k USD per month? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: What're some great cities to live for $2k USD per month?

57 pointswhitepoplar77 comments

I'm a single 31yo guy looking move somewhere new for 1-2 years. I'd like to have a studio/1br to myself, cook most meals, use public transit (no car), and have enough of a budget left for a decent social life. I'm pretty frugal by nature, but enjoy the odd creature comfort. Any recommendations for cities that would satisfy this lifestyle on $2k USD per month (net)? My budget isn't fixed, so can always go a bit higher, but would prefer to stay at/under $2k if possible. Thanks!

Some places I had in mind: Athens, Belgrade, Bucharest, Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Mexico City. Anyone have experience with any of them?

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Montevideo. Some options a bit limited there but good internet and handy access to B.A. along with a congenial climate.

For much of NZ/AU, this is too low for rent unless you can find a share house. Assuming you did, Melbourne, Brisbane, Wellington might work. That said, a LOT of money goes on rent.

Turkey and Greece aside, I don't think the core EU economies will work out. If you go to the more recent entrants on the fringe (Czech republic, Slovakia, Croatia, Slovenia) you'd be in budget.

Much of south-east Asia would be fine on this. Bangkok, Hanoi, Kuala-Lumpur, Chang Mai. Or Indonesia. You won't keep head above water in Beijing or Tokyo on this income, I can't speak for other cities in region.

Many economies now have digital nomad visa, its $2k class cost but then gives you rights to be there beyond 90 day tourist visa.

Thanks! Tokyo is $2k+ per month, even living frugally?

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Tokyo

Looks like $1200 even without rent

If it's $2k rent, you can definitely live on that without issues in Berlin, Tokyo, Beijing. I've lived in each of these places and you'll be fine. You may even be able to get by on $2k including food and transportation, depends on the exact type of housing you choose.

The $2k figure was all-in, rent plus other expenses, more or less.

You mentioned a studio/1br, which you can totally do in Tokyo under $2k, including food and other daily expenses. However, it will largely depend on what you consider a decent social life.

I live in Tokyo - you can get a tiny studio apartment good for 1 person for $400/mo if you live 15-20 mins from one of the outer trains stations in a relatively old building, maybe like 45 mins-1 hr to get to the city center. You might spend like $50-$100/mo on utilities. Food is cheap if you cook a lot and use local ingredients. Eating out isn't cheap, but doesn't have to be expensive (a simple beef on rice bowl or some soba noodles for lunch might be $4, a bit more substantial meal might be like $6-$10, it and it'll probably be healthy).

How cheap you go really depends on your lifestyle - if you bike a lot instead of using the train, you'll save some money (aforementioned place to central tokyo might be $3-5 each way); if you eat out or drink a lot, you'll spend more money. But yeah, probably can do it if you're living frugally, for sure.

For NZ I'd recommend Mount Maunganui, Matakana, Omaha, Paihia. $500 NZD per week for whole place, probably $200 for room only.

Auckland rents can be same price (or even cheaper when compared with nice rural areas), but provides tons of dining options. Lack of good food in smaller towns is one of biggest issues for me IMO.

FWIW. You could rent a studio apartment in the Melbourne CBD for ~200AUD a week (search postcode 3000 on domain.com.au for some listings)

That’s about 700USD per month which leaves plenty for other expenses.

Might be the size of a shoebox though

That's okay!

For New Zealand, anywhere except Auckland or Wellington would be fine. You can get a 1br apartment in downtown Christchurch for US300/week.

Although, NZ is really open for immigration right now.

I'm gonna recommend Fukuoka, Japan. The city is large enough to have many creature comforts, but small enough that you can 'get out' and experience the countryside very easily.

Compared to Tokyo you will likely save a good amount of money on rent and transport. You'll probably pay around $400 for a simple room near the city center. You can cycle almost everywhere, Fukuoka is much flatter than Tokyo, or just use the subway. The city center is very walkable.

Eating out is cheap and high quality. You'll probably pay $5-10 for a basic meal, or $30 for a lot of food with alcoholic drinks.

Depending on your nationality you might be able to get a working holiday visa, which is a good way to experience Japan in general.

Some downsides: It's very difficult to get into Japan right now, English is not widely spoken.

EDIT: Just realised you stated your age as 31 and the working holiday visa is only for people up to age 30.

I completely agree. Not just Fukuoka though; really any city outside of the Tokyo metro area is fantastic.

The issue is getting a visa to stay longer than 90 days, which can be difficult.

It seems USA is excluded from the working holiday program

https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/w_holiday/index.html

Isn't it ridiculously difficult for foreigners to rent in Japan? Not to mention the language barrier

Valencia.

$2k USB means 1700€.

- Small studio 400-500€ (You can get a small old apartment for that too) - Electricity bill 70-80€, maybe less if you're alone and a little bit more if you use AC - Water bill 100€ every 3 months - Metro/Subway 40-50€ - Groceries 200-400€ depending on what you eat

Eating out is cheap unless you go to the highly touristic zones. No matter where you are you can find a restaurant where the menu is between 10 and 15€ with first and second course, drink, dessert and coffee.

Night life is awesome. Alcohol is cheap. No matter where you are in the city you'll be safe, the worst thing that could ever happen to you is to get robbed when you're not paying attention.

Where I said USB I meant USD. Muscular memory, sorry.

Athens is quite cheap, and doesn't get too cold in the winter. For the cheapest Mediterranean beach cities, there's Antalya and Izmir in Turkey.

It's easy to live under $2k a month in many of the places you mentioned. I lived for under $800 a month easy. It dropped even lower after I moved in with my current partner.

What matters to you? Air quality is not great in parts of Turkey or Serbia. I hate seeing cars so I may move out of Cluj soon. If you're gay, some regions will be too, uh, conservative. Weather... anything far from the coast will have all four seasons. I highly recommend cities with a large university presence - if you're young you don't really want to live in a retirement destination.

What kind of lifestyle are you talking about? You can live lots of places for 2k a month in a "student" lifestyle, ie single with roommates, no car, cook most meals, and still have a decent amount of disposable money.

I'd say "lavish frugal" (if that's even a thing)...a small studio/1br, cooking most meals but with the occasional+ night out, no car so looking for good public transit/walkability, etc. This would likely be something I'd do for a year or two...nothing permanent.

Are you planning to do telework, work locally, or just live off savings? Could be important for visas to many of the places that have been mentioned (e.g., Japan).

As a 50-something guy with kids, job and at-home responsibilities, I'm envious: Good luck wherever you end up!

Mexico City is absolutely fantastic, lots of greenery, amazing food, unique culture, welcoming people, lively nightlife, truly a megalopolis.

$2k is not a lot but should be enough for a good life. An apartment can rent for about $600 USD a month (surely you can find cheaper or much more expensive).

If you can, I recommend living in Condesa.

Finally, if you are employed elsewhere i.e. not in Mexico, you can live indefinitely in Mexico and pay no local income taxes. Lots of foreigners do this.

I loved CDMX when I visited! I stayed in Roma Norte and had a very fun time. How's the safety situation as a long-term resident? Also, that last sentence is very intriguing! How does that work in practice? Does the government simply not monitor this very closely?

Re: Safety I go to CDMX very often and not once have I felt unsafe. Moreover, it is getting increasingly popular among foreigners to move to CDMX permanently or temporarily.

I do have friends that feel like the safety is not good enough for raising kids, so there is that.

I think as long as you stick to safe areas, you should be fine.

Re: visa You can find the requirements here [0] (I don't know why it is in Canadian dollars).

I have a handful of Spanish friends that are under this visa. They technically work in the US or Spain but are "temporary residents" in Mexico. Mexico only requires you to pay taxes on income gained in Mexico. So if your employer (or your clients if you are a freelancer) are abroad and the proceeds are deposited to a foreign account, then Mexico does not tax that income.

[0] https://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/leamington/index.php/non-mexica...

What about public transportation? OP doesn't want to drive.

Biking is an option, Condesa/Roma/surrounding areas are very walkable. Ubers are on the order of $3-6 USD. And there are busses.

Helsinki.

- Public transit is excellent (costs 50-100€ / month). - Studio apartments unfurnished go for about 800-900€ / month.

If you do your research well you can definitely do it for around 2k / month.

Santiago of Chile for the city, Viña del Mar (Valparaíso) for the beach, Puerto Natales if you like nature.

Mexico City would be a great choice for your budget if you stay clear of the foreigner areas (Polanco, Condesa, Roma), as rent in those areas seems to be approaching US prices due to the influx of Americans. The metro is good, coworking options are everywhere, it's a cultural hub with infinite things to see, and the social scene has something for everyone. Downsides are pollution and traffic.

Digital nomad types seem to really love Medellin, Colombia. Also a very easy place to settle into as a foreigner.

I visited several years ago and enjoyed staying in Roma Norte. I can see why the prices are skyrocketing. Which neighborhoods would you suggest I look at?

I would recommend visiting and getting a short term accommodation near Roma Norte. There's a few peripheral areas around there that haven't had as much price inflation, but you'll want to identify them by physically being there as there's other closeby areas that you don't want to be in (Doctores).

If you're willing to go a bit further south in the city (45-60 minutes from Condesa, depending on traffic), Coyoacan is a great area. I haven't lived around UNAM but I hear it's very lively. You could also go for a more tranquil existence even further south in Tlalpan, or go east outside the city to a colonial style town like Valle de Bravo (known for its lake and paragliding). A lot of your preference will depend on your level of Spanish and how much you like being around expats.

> go east outside the city to a colonial style town like Valle de Bravo

I didn't realize there are longer-term stays here. Would this be found via Aribnb or elsewhere? Also, how near would it be to food/coffee/groceries/etc?

Actually, it's west (not sure how I messed that up). Yes, it's a fully functioning town/city of ~60k people with all the major things you're used to (convenience stores, grocery stores, etc.), though you might need to go into Toluca or Mexico City if you're furniture shopping or something.

It's a common weekend and holiday destination for people from the city and there's some foreigners living there permanently, though the big draw for foreigners is the paragliding community.

Gotcha - this is helpful, thank you!

What places are like this without pollution?

I should clarify: the pollution in Mexico City is particularly bad for a city of its size because of its geography (although it has been getting less worse in the past decade due to regulation). It's in a valley, trapped by mountains on all sides that basically cooks a toxic stew of smog that sits over the city. Combined with a fairly dry climate, this makes the pollution unusually bad, especially during the more dry winter months. Sometimes you can't see the mountains right outside the city the visibility is so bad.

It's more of a long term concern so if you're just planning to stay for a year or two, I think the upsides are greater than the downsides. But I would have serious health concerns about staying and raising a family there. If not for the pollution issue, I would probably have permanently moved there already. It's a world class city.

Vilnius, Lithuania https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

All of these comments miss such a critical detail: visas and resident permits. You can't just go and live somewhere cause you feel like it.

Most of the people's comments you're reading will stay and/or overstay a tourist visa without blinking...

..and the odds are usually in their favor, regarding enforcement.

If you're moving to a very poor country, maybe, but many comments are suggesting rich countries in Europe, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, and so on.

Tartu, Estonia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartu

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Tartu

This won't replace the first hand reccomendations in this thread but there is a website that is going to feel like it was made just to answer your question if you haven't heard of it.

https://nomadlist.com/

If you are really looking at this life changing experience, i'd suggest taking a look at expat rankings for additional data points such as Mercer's 2021 Cost of Living city ranking (1). They are a good starting point, but you should also look at taxes, community, language barrier, safety and security, among many other important aspects that are not in the description

https://www.mercer.com/our-thinking/career/cost-of-living.ht...

This list really goes against my lived experience - I don’t understand how one can consider Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, nor Singapore more expensive than New York or San Francisco - it’s crazy in this list those ones haven’t even cracked the top 10.

I think it’s referring to a really specific kind of lifestyle - you’re trying to live in a luxury American-sized home in the exact center of a central business district, and eat nothing but fois gras and steaks all day everyday. Maybe then Shanghai or even Tokyo is imaginably more expensive than NYC, but what I’ve found is that you can still get meals under $1-2 in Shanghai and apartments for less than $400/mo in Tokyo - really doubt you can pull that off in SF.

Montreal. You'll be cutting it close but it's completely possible. The city is has great culture, there's always something to do and has decent public transit (with good bike infrastructure for NA).

Warsaw. Own 25 m2 flat: 600 usd Cheap meals and fair price in good restaurants. Best in Europe public transport 25 usd/m. In general more than half cheaper than Berlin.

New Zealand could work if you're looking for a similar culture and like the outdoors. Might be hitting the budget if it's Auckland but somewhere like Christchurch might be easier. The smaller cities are cheaper still but not much of a social life, I'd save them for travelling or visits rather than being based there. Just be aware groceries and most domestic products are a ripoff compared to the US.

Vienna.

A great public transport system, fast-ish internet and classical culture. The budget would totally fit the lifestyle but not as cheap as Bucharest and Bratislava.

I really enjoyed Vienna last time I visited. I got the impression that fluent German would be necessary in order to live there. I'm totally into learning new languages, but fear that I wouldn't be able to learn German quick enough to settle in. What's your take on this?

What does quick enough mean? How much of the language do you want to learn? As a native speaker I can’t comment on how hard it is to learn the language but working with people that are new to Germany here and there, some of them are amazingly fast at learning the language. Others don’t care too much so they need more time. From the outside it seems doable.

My thought is that if I only spend 1-2 years in a place, if it takes me a year or more to learn the language, I may be ready to leave by the time I've gotten a handle on it.

How fluent do you want to speak? I think you’ll manage to get by in German speaking places but learning the language isn’t easy. At least that’s what other people say, I grew up with it, for me things intuitively make sense somehow haha. As for me I’d go somewhere with better weather, a little closer to the equator I believe.

I think my bar for learning a language is being able to fit in socially without being "that guy who only speaks English/broken [insert language]". I'm sure I could learn barebones German in a short while, but feeling shut out of social activity because I don't speak with fluency doesn't sound like a fun.

It won’t be a problem if you don’t know German. Everybody is at least capable of basic English so you will almost never be able to not communicate with somebody. You can take your time with learning the German basics but you can also totally live there for 1-2 years without speaking German. Australian/Irish pubs are generally hosted by people with English as their mother tongue.

20 years ago, I lived in London for less than that, but you'd have to be pretty frugal now. Many smaller cities in the UK would be fine though.

If you're considering Bucharest I've heard good things about Budapest in terms of living costs and it's a nice place to visit. I also love Slovenia so Ljublijana may be an option and is also very close to Venice and Milan and the fantastic Julian alps

Most of the italian big cities except from Milan, Rome and Florence. Just take one with the best climate for your needs.

https://nomadlist.com/

As no one has mentioned yet: Cyprus (E.g. Larnaca or Paphos). Low taxes, nice weather all day long, and lots of expats here. You can get an apartment with pool for 600$/month.

Bangkok will work quite well for that budget. Assuming that budget is for the "living" part. If your total income in 2k per month, them I would not recommend it.

Why has nobody said India? 99 percent of the country would fall well under your budget!!!!

Lisbon, Portugal.

Affordable living, quality of life is great, mild winters, endless beaches with great surf.

except he cant live here that long if he's American, unless he gets residency, which is long process for people from the states.

As for affordable living, depends on your life style. Nice apartments are expensive, now that tourism is back I'm paying €1400, eating out is not cheap, neither is shopping from Pingo, unless you commute to a Lidl. My gym is €60, you can go to a cheaper one but its super busy. All in all its been more expensive for me here than it was back in my home town in Manchester, UK. But my standard of living is high and less 'frugal'

Compared to other EU cities, it is cheaper. The weather is great etc

You should consider Kabul if you are pious. Rental prices dropped by 50% recently and you can snag luxury apt for 200-300/months. News agencies report that petty crime pretty much disappeared and city is much safer than before. Regular flights just resumed and new authorities has not established visa requirements yet. No Covid testing or vaccine requirements.

You can watch history unfold before your eyes!

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/house-prices-fall-50-pc-163121020....

I don't sense sarcasm but can't believe you are being serious either

This seems like quite possibly the worst advice I've ever seen. I'd assume it's a joke, but if so, that's some seriously dry humor.

Romania: Cluj, Timisoara, Sibiu

Milan, Italy.

You're joking, right?

Italy might not be bad considering OP's requirements (lots of medium-sized towns, somewhat half-decent public transportation on average, albeit with very high variance) but Milan in particular is notoriously insanely expensive.

lol. London, NYC.

Bratislava

2-bd start at around 500 EUR/month utilities included, but can go higher if you choose a good location and bigger apartment. For 600 EUR you should be able to find a solid one, with luxurious ones in good location starting at 750 EUR/month.

Good internet speed, friendly people, european culture, quick flight or train ride to anywhere in Europe, pretty girls.

Will check out, thanks! Do you have any thoughts on Belgrade or Bucharest?

Definitely worth considering too. Bratislava is really close to Vienna, probably more West European in culture than others because of physical proximity and history.

I'd explore all these, may be do a few months stay in each city, that would be really cool experience you could tell stories about.

Btw if you go further east check out Chernivtsi, it’s a hidden gem in the East Carpathian mountains.

how are things in the winter time?

I lived in Bucharest for a bit and settled in Cluj-Napoca at age 33 (single at the time). I chose Romania over some other countries in the region because of English speaking proficiency, and Romanian is easier than some of the Slavic ones.

Bucharest was fine. The lack of decor started to wear on me after a while. Cool thing about Romania is that you can rent pretty easily and leave with one month's notice even if you signed a one year lease. A decent 400 SQ ft studio in Bucharest or Cluj (the most expensive cities) won't be more than $350 a month.

I lived in Belgrade for a few months with a Serbian friend. Absolutely loved the city and the people. Found it to be incredibly affordable with a great night life, especially if you're in your 20s and want to meet university girls.

Language wise, most people under 30 had some basic English, I spoke almost no Serbian at all but still managed to get by at stores and restaurants. Internet is cheap and widely available.

I was thinking about Bratislava a few years back but heard that people there are not very inviting to anybody non-white or gay. Not sure if it's true. How are people there in this regard?

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