Comment by IG_Semmelweiss | Hacker News Reader

Comment by IG_Semmelweiss | Hacker News Reader

Some history on the site:

Only some 7 years ago, this very area was targeted to be the heart of a new stadium development for the Major League Soccer. It was going to be the West Village home....for NYC FC soccer franchise

It made sense: Pier40 city park, across the street from 550 washington St, was basically a decreipt property stuck in time as was the rest of the neighborhood. Then hurricane Sandy hit. The damage closed the Pier40 building for almost half a year. Some support did arrive from Sandy hurricane aid, which ironically did more to help the building than any other city park initiative.

Post-Sandy, Pier 40 park seemed destined to stumble along.

Then came the MSL. They were convinced they could sell the idea to the site: redevelop moribund Pier40 and 550 Washington St next to it. Everyone seemed excited.

However, they did not count on a surprise rival: parents of the little league baseball kids that regularly play at Pier40 turf fields (as does DUSC soccer kids). They protested. Loudly. Some of them likely well connected.

The project then died and moved elsewhere.

Now, some of those parents live in the area. They are now looking to benefit enormously from this Google development.

Kudos for them. They earned it

Now, I happen to think Stadiums are too inefficient a use of space to be in Manhattan, but we should never celebrate NIMBYism like this.

Is commercial real estate necessarily a better use of space than a place for kids to play team sports?

I am saying I fully reject the means of NIMBYism, nevermind the ends.

But yes, I would be against reducing park space.

In this case I thought GP was celebrating the move for preserving park space, perhaps because this building isn't on the pier but just land? But I am not sure.

The building, 550 washington, is huge and on land. Pier 40 is next to it, (towarss the west) across the NYC west side highway. Pier 40 is mostly on water as the name implies

Building being sold does not reduce park space. It fact that building was an eyesore before redevelopment. Now, I contend it makes it more likely that thanks to the new tenants,Pier40 will have a major facelift

Would kids be able to play at an MLS Stadium?

In a similar vein, the Olympics 2012 bid for NYC would've been where Hudson Yards is now, but was rejected over concerns about bursty event traffic (the area already hosts the convention center.) This location is even less able to handle bursty traffic, it's not near any express subway lines or commuter rail terminals.

> However, they did not count on a surprise rival: parents of the little league baseball kids that regularly play at Pier40 turf fields

The MLS soccer field was long canceled at that point because of Hurricane Sandy, it seems. (Dunno, I don't follow Chelsea real estate. I live in Brooklyn.)

So as far as I can tell, pier 40 will continue to be used for public park.

this Google building is across the street.

Everyone loves kids' play spaces when it's other people's money being spent on them, but when there's money on the line it looks like commercial real estate generates a lot more value.

So it's good because they're going to make money?

Its good because of the positive externalities it brings

The parent's protesting, while self interested (for their kids) benefited many groups, particularly teenagers and immigrants that often play pickup sports at Pier 40 like touch football, ultimate, or soccer, without park permits (because they can't afford field permits).

So, this is good because Google will bring more security and investment into a forgotten NYC area.

Coincidentally, Pier 40 is also the on-ramp spot where the terrorist truck driver started his post-Halloween drive that killed 8 tourists in the pedestrian walkway. [1]

[1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-describes-chaotic-scene-dr...

Why do we need field permits and park permits to play a game of sports in the first place? It's a park. This is the kind of bureaucratic bullshit that wastes taxpayer dollars and makes people hate the city government.

The reason, ostensibly, is the lack of park capacity generally available in Manhattan. Permits are pretty much the only way to reasonably schedule slots for all the schools serving the 1.6M+ people of Manhattan and their teams, since schools usually do not have sufficient play fields of their own.

During less busy times this isn't an issue. The permits more or less act as guaranteed reservations.

https://www.nycgovparks.org/permits/field-and-court/request/...

> When to Apply

> If you are a member of an organized league, you must request a field or court for any formal use. Otherwise, our fields and courts are available to the public for informal use (pickup games). If you would like to reserve a field or court in advance at a specific time, you should make a request to ensure your uninterrupted use of the field.

One group of people playing soccer, football, or baseball can take up almost the entire turf space in a small popular park. Think of Dolores Park is SF. On weekends it's packed with people picnicking. If instead 20 people were playing baseball, it would not be safe for anyone to picnic nearby because of the risk for errant baseballs.

On the other extreme end of things, one person hitting golf balls in a park can make the park unsafe for everyone else. At some point, the government institutes regulations to keep the park fun/safe/useful for the largest number of people.

I actually agree with you, but i think there is more to this than you have considered.

Most of the people paying taxes, actually love the government for it. They dont hate it. This is because Permits effectively put a price to use the field, and it shouldnt be surprising that teenagers and immigrants are the ones with the least means to pay and also the ones paying little to no taxes.

So office workers are able to afford playing , while the immigrants and teenagers get kicked out.

Kids of affluent parents have no problems booking fields. But that's due to poor incentives: little kid coaches have a racket setting up nonprofit 503(c) ( which gives permitholders priority ).

If there is a problem with permits, it is there. Permits are subject to capture

https://www.nycgovparks.org/permits/field-and-court/request/...

> When to Apply

> If you are a member of an organized league, you must request a field or court for any formal use. Otherwise, our fields and courts are available to the public for informal use (pickup games). If you would like to reserve a field or court in advance at a specific time, you should make a request to ensure your uninterrupted use of the field.

No one is getting kicked out of fields. You don't need a permit for informal games.

Yeah I mean that seems like a weird narrative. Some people get wealthy because they bought land and then did nothing and held on tenaciously to it even as the rest of society increasingly needed it for something else? How is that a victory for the good guys? That's just rentier capitalism.

> even as the rest of society increasingly needed it for something else?

You added this part.

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