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> The Kobo is an excellent reading device, but it is a very poor internet browsing device.

Sounds like a feature to me - perfect!

Apparently these days you can release a half-baked product and get away with it by saying "the obvious lack of features is so that you can have a focused, distraction-free experience!" or something similar.

Do you complain about knives because they're not good at scooping? When something does one thing well, I don't care if it does auxiliary things poorly, or at all.

They half-assed the capability to mix two liquids with my Kindle, as well, IPX8 certification nonwithstanding. Useless. I'm sticking with spoons.

My counter would be that it was traditionally never the paperback book's job to help you navigate the bookstore.

But yes, I'll grant that the Kobo's experimental browser (which I think is the component that powers all the pieces I mentioned above that are slow/cumbersome) is noticeably less responsive than the Kindle's. They could probably do some additional tweaking under-the-hood to make it more responsive.

Beyond a certain point, however, the only way to make it faster would be to increase the hardware specs and put a beefier OS into it. But at that point, you wouldn't really have a dedicated eReader anymore--you'd have something closer to a conventional tablet with just an e-Ink screen. And there are definitely markets for those (see any number of e-Ink tablets running Android), but then the price starts skyrocketing.

> My counter would be that it was traditionally never the paperback book's job to help you navigate the bookstore.

This is like claiming that a phone never had the job of an internet browsing device. Sure, the hardware and maybe the form factor has some handicaps, but it is perfectly reasonable hardware, if only the software was up to the task.

But the problem is people claiming the poor software is so that "you can have a more distraction-free experience". That's just ridiculous, and the net conclusion is that again I have to bring a entire backpack full of gadgets rather than just one because of _minimal_ software differences.

If I am forced to bring new hardware in my luggage, I want it to be because of meaningful differences in the hardware itself (e.g. e-Ink easier to read outdoors), rather than ridiculous differences in the software (e.g., I also need to bring another computer because the ridiculous software won't let me visit a website to download a new ePub, even on eInk speeds), most specially if these differences are explained with very dubious excuses such as "distraction-free" experience.

> But the problem is people claiming the poor software is so that "you can have a more distraction-free experience". That's just ridiculous, and the net conclusion is that again I have to bring a entire backpack full of gadgets rather than just one because of _minimal_ software differences.

Fair, I think "distraction-free experience" is a cop-out.

But I guess my point would be that there is a trade-off when you try to take a specialized gadget and make it more multi-purpose. The iPods and MP3 players of old did not have wireless-accessible storefronts, for example: you plugged them into a computer and pulled down your library, podcasts, etc. It was definitely more of a hassle from that perspective compared to using your smartphone as an mp3 player, but the advantage was arguably superior audio quality, and objectively superior battery life, since the mp3 player's OS had only one purpose compared to a smartphone's.

I'd argue the same on an eReader versus a conventional tablet. Yes, if you really wanted to browse the store / browse Libby & Overdrive library /browse Wikipedia while reading, you definitely could do all the reading on a standard iPad or Android tablet and use the Kobo App instead, and it would work. I have a 10" Samsung tablet and do this on occasion (mostly for comics, because the Galaxy Tab S5e has a gorgeous screen for a mid-range device). But I generally don't do it for any book that I'm going to read for more than an hour, because the reading experience on the tablet is subpar compared to that of the Kobo, to say nothing of the battery life (measured in hours on the tablet versus weeks on the Kobo).

And this is just me personally, but I don't think it's that big of a deal to pull out my smartphone and buy a book on the Kobo app, then click 'Sync' on my Kobo to connect to WiFi and bring it over. Or do the same with a Libby book checkout, or a Pocket article. It's not like I would've left my phone at home if the Kobo had been able to better do it on its own.

> But I guess my point would be that there is a trade-off when you try to take a specialized gadget and make it more multi-purpose. The iPods and MP3 players of old did not have wireless-accessible storefronts, for example: you plugged them into a computer and pulled down your library, podcasts, etc

But I don't see a trade-off these days. The iPods and MP3 did not have wireless radios. These devices HAVE wireless radios, and not only that, they're constantly using them. You're paying the cost in weight, size, battery life. It's just the company doesn't want to pay the corresponding cost in software.

> And this is just me personally, but I don't think it's that big of a deal to pull out my smartphone and buy a book on the Kobo app, then click 'Sync' on my Kobo to connect to WiFi and bring it over.

Then why do you read your eBooks on a eReader rather than the smartphone? Whatever answer you give here, same thing applies to why I wouldn't want to bring/use another device.

We are over ten years out from the ipad 1. it shouldn't be very costly to put in some hardware powerful enough that it at least makes it so typing text doesn't have input lag. That wouldn't even take much more beef than a $40 raspberry pi. This is like a TV manufacturer evil business genius tier move. Why spend $4 on a decent wholesale board when you can spend $0.04 instead on a terrible board and the consumers will buy it anyway?

The input lag is most probably due to page refresh on e-ink, and not hardware power.

Correct. Noticeable response lag is evident even on the HDMI e-ink panels driven by whatever you like. They have been getting better though.

> the obvious lack of features is so that you can have a focused, distraction-free experience

This means the device is more of an appliance than a general computing device.

A good example is a reMarkable 2. It is a solid, well-designed digital version of a paper notebook. (I will add paper notebooks aren't searchable.)

Yes, anything else, including search, is bolted on but the core experience it was designed for isn't half-baked.

Actually, reMarkable is _precisely_ what I had in mind. Distraction-free is just an excuse for obviously unfinished software; just go and see which con most reviews agree on.

The hardware is quite capable, but held back by the software.

Not every electronic device needs to run a general purpose operating system and arbitrary software! This is a big contributor to why modern electronics have high latency and frustrating UIs.

Most of them are already running general purpose operating systems, and you are already paying the cost in latency (and frustrating UI) without any benefit. This is not the 90s, everything just runs Linux, even "single purpose" devices.

I'm proposing designing more devices that don't use GPOS/linux. And do their job well, with no noticeable latency or responsiveness problems. Easy for many tasks, using Cortex-M for example.

Sure I might agree there, but this is hardly the case nowadays. You have crappy overpowered hardware and incomplete software.

Distraction-free is not just an excuse, it's absolutely a valuable feature for me and a nontrivial number of other people.

It's fine if you don't like that feature, but not every customer would like them to "finish the software" by putting a highly functional browser on every e-reader. There's room in the market for both types of devices.

And yet you serve both types of customers by, well, putting the browser.

Show me a general purpose computing device, like you are seem to be insisting every device should be, that has a month or more of battery life despite moderate to heavy usage, yet weighs as little and is as thin as the reMarkable. Products necessarily have trade-offs due to current technology limitations, so it's not just about "excuses".

It's not a technology limitation to withhold root access from the user.

Instead of it being "excuses for limiting features because of poor software" it's "withholding root access" now? So we are shifting goal posts?

I'm not the GP but you mentioned general purpose computing device. All of these devices are general purpose computing devices in terms of the offered hardware and even the underlying software, the only thing stopping you from doing general purpose compute is the fact you aren't allowed to have root access to what is probably some unix OS running on the device. Imagine being able write your own scripts to run on your remarkable tablet and build your own features tailored to your own use cases, just like any laptop today. The only limitation is corporate policy rather than hardware or even software, both of these are capable of general purpose compute already.

> Imagine being able write your own scripts to run on your remarkable tablet

You have actual root access to a reMarkable device by SSHing into it, so not sure your point here? Were you thinking it was a device locked down like an Apple product?

More details: https://github.com/reHackable/awesome-reMarkable

You can SSH, but you can't even render anything to the screen without severe and fragile hacking around.

A bit of "help" from RM (like a plugin system on the main stock app) would go a lot of the way.

Thanks for continuing to shift goal posts and prove my point. I think you need to accept the product wasn’t designed for your needs. If you don’t like that, don’t buy it (or return it if you did).

Please elaborate how complaining about the software being incomplete is "shifting the goal posts", and while you are at it also elaborate on how "well, just suck it up" is a valid counterargument.

> Please elaborate how complaining about the software being incomplete

Did they sell you a device promising a vibrant app ecosystem? Did they tell you it was a general purpose web connected computer? No, they sell it as an electronic notepad with syncing capability. Just because you think that is an “incomplete” feature set doesn’t change the fact that what it’s sold to do it does, and does it moderately well. Are you the type of person who goes into a vegetarian restaurant and rails on them for having an “incomplete menu” because they don’t offer filet mignon cooked to your liking?

This is a very weak argument, since if I complain about the syncing being crap and wasting battery (which it does), then you'd just claim they sold me an "electronic notepad". If I complain about the electronic part having weak battery life, then you'd claim they're selling me a "notepad". We could basically go all day and progress nothing. It's not like you (or them) are the authority on what constitutes an "electronic notepad". This thing has more powerful hardware than most computers I've ever had in my life.

Go and look for any Remarkable review. They all complain about the software being incomplete (expensive, lacks features, no apps, good for nothing else, etc.). Most people expected more and they lose sales because of it. We pay more because the hardware is way overpowered for what the software allows. Saying it's because "no distractions" is a cheap excuse.

Well, that is easy: the Remarkable has one the shortest battery life amongst ALL the gadgets I own. Even Remarkable reviews promise short of 20h, and I'd be lucky if I get 10h. I have laptops that get better battery life. Most of the problem is that it just keeps the Wi-Fi radio on constantly and tries to phone home way too frequently; see Reddit discussions for workarounds.

The hardware already has Wi-Fi, it is powered on almost constantly, and the builtin software is constantly polling it in order to "sync". Let me know how much extra battery life would it kill for it to ship a browser.

My reMarkable 2, using it for it’s designed purpose of note taking, lasts for weeks (month+?) on a charge depending on how much I write each day, but it averages 3-5 or more pages consistently 5-6 days a week and the battery life is long enough I never think about charging.

You're just putting the same number in a different level of precision. 10 hours of battery is less than a laptop. Your laptop would also last you weeks if you only used it a couple minutes per day.

Kobo can get away with it because their product is hackable. It's fine to release a platform with slightly too limited functionality if other people can then build on it.

I've found a use for the browser - it allows me to easily load DRM-stripped books from various places without having to bother plugging the device in. You can set the homepage to a server on the LAN with your books and download what you want easily.

That's... about all the browser really handles. But Pocket or Wallabag get you a far better article reading experience anyway. Any long form article on the web now gets shoved in Pocket and read on my Kobo.

The problem is you can't use the Kobo until you create an online account and connect it to the internet. After that, though, you can do airplane mode forever.

If you're comfortable working with sqlite files it's an incredibly simple process to bypass any account registration or need to ever connect the device to the internet, this should work on all models new and old.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1998068#p...

I feel the same about my Kindle Paperwhite— I just buy stuff on the Amazon website or sling mobis/epubs at it from Calibre. Zero patience for the on-device interface other than using it for reading.

While I try to do that as much as possible it does not work with my country's version of overdrive. I have to use my e-reader and its awful browser to search for books I want to read. As the website is not even optimized for mobile devices the whole process is rather painful. But this is not the fault of the e-reader.

Amazon has their hooks deep into Overdrive in exchange for supporting Kindle delivery for library books, so I doubt this will ever get better. Overdrive has moved its focus to its mobile app. I hope Kobo support will improve, but I am not optimistic.

It seems like they have deprecated their OD branded app in favor of the "Libby" app, right? Which does have better UX. It is really gross how Amazon feels the need to control the means of delivery used by most library systems :facepalm:

Yes, it's Libby going forward. It fairness, Kindle delivery is very easy if you are not a tech savvy person, which a lot of library users are not. They have a Kindle because they desire the accessibility tools (larger printer, lighter weight) or their kids bought it for them or whatever. Being able to do delivery just like they would buy a book is great. But Amazon requires prominent Kindle branding and locks the Libby app out of their app store, so it's also somewhat annoying if you are a librarian who doesn't want to promote a specific brand. But the Kindle is such a huge part of our user base, it's hard to go back now. Other methods work, there's just nothing as smooth as the Kindle.

This is fair, and a good reminder for me that a Librarian's prerogative is to follow the means, mode, and preference of the readership with the goal of enabling folks to read. This is a noble goal and it's good that Amazon has contributed something to "accessibility" via a smoother delivery mechanism.

Mine was a disaster to type on. Slow, unreliable, and for some reason the closer to the right edge of the screen you got, the further left on each key you had to touch, until finally you would have to touch the key to the left of the one you want. But it was a great reader until a kid stepped on my bag a couple weeks ago. I ordered an Onyx Boox Nova Air, in hopes the software will be better. I also hope it's anywhere near as good and durable a reader.

That sounds like a faulty digitizer.

I've had my Boox Nova Air for about 10 days now and it feels like a great piece of gear. Loving it so far.

It sounds crazy but I actually see this inconvenience as something of a plus. Getting out my kobo means that I will commit to reading for a while, similar to when I pick up a physical book. The fact that all other functions (like Web browsing) are so inconvenient help reduce the distractions for me.

Yeah — I get my ebooks DRM-free and manage the contents of my Kobo through Calibre. It works great; I'm happy using my Kobo as little more than a screen for Calibre.