Comment by sofixa | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sofixa | Hacker News Reader

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> I will fight 'smart passports' tooth and nail to my grave

I don't know what your definition of a "smart passport" is, but the ones we have in the EU are pretty awesome. NFC chip on them that can be scanned to provide the biometric data - use cases are automatic identity checks at airports with passport+smart camera that compares, and the same via a government provided app where you take a video of your face, scan the chip, and the app compares them. Both are great, secure ( much more so that sending a scanned copy of your passport/ID card), practical, and can and are done with privacy in mind ( as much as privacy is possible for the airport scenario).

I don't understand people like you. Making people's lives easier is one of the main points of tech. All such advances on that particular level should be done with old school backups for people who can't use the tech (old, disabled, etc.) but those should be the exceptions. If almost everyone can use a system which is more secure, takes less time, and requires less money/time to run, why not? Why not make it the default? Why not make life easier for 90%+ of the adult population?

The underlying uneasiness of people fighting this kind of technology is that it is technology that gives more power to a government, and that power can be then used against you if the government gets corrupted one way or another : if a wannabe dictators gets to power and destroy democratic power balance, or fascists gets to power, etc...

A common rebuttal to this is that democracy is strong enough to withstand this, and that if it happens, people will rebel. Another fear is then that the government gets enough power from the technological advance that the people rebelling will become not strong enough, or that the government will have so much influence in people's life that they will be able to squash rebellion before it even takes form.

We passed that point decades ago. It's as insanely stupid as the thought that right to bear arms could stop government.

> The underlying uneasiness of people fighting this kind of technology is that it is technology that gives more power to a government, and that power can be then used against you if the government gets corrupted one way or another : if a wannabe dictators gets to power and destroy democratic power balance, or fascists gets to power, etc...

If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! All governments in developed countries know all of their citizens. Making that knowledge and verification more easily usable in specific scenarios ( like verifying your identity online for government services or at airports) doesn't change anything with regards to what the government knows or has. In both the scenarios, even with paper forms/manual checks, they still know who you are (when were you born, how much taxes you pay, parents, address, etc.) and what you did in that precise moment ( passed through airport or filled taxes online).

IMHO refusing technological progress that makes lives easier for almost everyone on unfounded fears is wrong. Discussions should be had about how to do that progress in the best/most secure way possible, but refusing it outright? It's just being a luddite for the sake of it.

> If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?! All governments in developed countries know all of their citizens.

In case it happens, the lack of always-on, uncontrollable surveillance can help you to become a dissident and fight the corruption. Otherwise you will get in jail or killed immediately if you try.

A passport with a chip in it isn't

`the lack of always-on, uncontrollable surveillance`

And even if it somehow did, you leave the device at home while you go out on your dissidence business.

Again, this is hugely overblown.

> you leave the device at home while you go out on your dissidence business

This is not so simple at all. Mobile phones are required everywhere now, from reading a menu in a cafe to entering a building with QR-codes (against corona, of course). I am not even speaking about importance of communication with other people.

Also, no government turns into a tyranny overnight. It happens slowly and most people will not be aware of it until late, including dissidents.

Re the QR code, can't you just print it out on a paper?

> If that happens, everyone is screwed anyways, what difference does it make if your passport has a machine readable chip?!

The difference it makes is that with such tech, I wouldn't have been born because my grand-parents would have been executed and my mother sent to a KZ, for they couldn't have easily forged various more or less believable identity papers and they couldn't have benefited of hard to cross-check databases.

But what is it, in regard of the convenience of going 2 minutes faster through customs check during the yearly holiday across the ocean, after all?

And going by that logic, nothing would ever be done. We don't live in Nazi Germany, and it's our responsibility to not allow the countries we live in to use it for inspiration, not to avoid anything that could have been abused under that regime. Going by your logic *which btw would be impossible to impose today, however hard to cross-check databases you make, a tyrannical government would find a way to cross-check them), we shouldn't have banking, debit/credit cards, mobile phones, the Internet, digital services, online ordering, etc.

> But what is it, in regard of the convenience of going 2 minutes faster through customs check during the yearly holiday across the ocean, after all?

It's not 2 minutes, it's the whole flow - having seen it implemented in some airports, the automatic queue is much faster than the one with physical border police checking your ID and looking at you.

And you're conveniently ignoring the other main use case, verifying your identity securely to be able to do bureaucratic stuff from the comfort and convenience of your home, without having to take time and queue up in an office somewhere.

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