Comment by whartung | Hacker News Reader

Comment by whartung | Hacker News Reader

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I am of a different tact.

I love motorcycling. It is a passion. I had my motorcycle classification before I got my car license.

But, I don't recommend it to anyone. I will not be party to suggesting, encouraging, cajoling or any other "ing" to get someone on a bike.

It's too dangerous to allow someone else to convince you.

Anyone in the community for any duration has their share of personal experiences, being close to someone lost or badly hurt, or simply being in a small community where loss and injury happens. I've lost friends. Had my share of (thankfully) mostly minor injuries. I've gone down on a freeway in rush hour traffic. It happens, it's real.

The two highest cohorts of folks getting injured or worse on a motorcycle are folks riding under the influence, and folks new (or even returning) to riding. The first cohort you can do something about, don't drink. The second, you can take measures (training, reading, practice), but, in the end, you have to just survive through it. You have to find yourself in situations and work your way through them.

I like traveling on a motorcycle. I love long distance touring rides. One of the best aspects of riding is going on a long trip with a friend. You may both take the same path, but, in the end, you have separate journeys and get to share them at each stop. In a car, you have a driver, and everyone else essentially asleep. As a driver you're likely barely conscious. Fingertip on the steering wheel, cruise control holding steady, songs serenading you on the stereo. On a bike, that's just not the case.

On a bike, you get to smell the air. High on my list is riding behind a lemon truck. You get to feel the environment. It's hot. It's cold. It's wet. Ride through the desert and feel the temperature change as you drop down in to a wash, even if just for a few hundred feet before you rise back up in the heat.

I love it.

But I don't recommend it.

Agreed. Rode for more than a decade in many different guises. Do not recommend.

Road trips are nice, but even on largely open country roads fatigue is real and it is easy for experienced riders to have accidents. Commuting is not safe. Some car drivers are just bad and will pull in front of you. Some car drivers will pick fights and threaten your life with their motor vehicle.

After giving it up, and growing up I suppose, I have also come to realize how many motorcyclists are jerks. I don't expect this to be a popular opinion. I always knew some were jerks: I saw their bad riding & picking unnecessary arguments with car drivers when out on rides with them! As a motorcycle-aware car driver many years later I have encountered many more whinging motorcyclists who themselves created unnecessarily dangerous situations then lectured me or flipped me off.

As a car driver, stay away from motorcycles. Considering motorcycling?: stay away from motorcycles. ;-)

> I have also come to realize how many motorcyclists are jerks.

As a non-motorcyclist, I detest the noise from loud exhaust pipes. Bad enough are the ones that sound like loud farting, the absolute worst are the ones that sound like roaring thunder and can be heard from 500 m away. These noises degrade my experience living in the city, whether I'm walking on the streets or in a building (street shop, apartment, etc.). It is absolutely selfish and despicable that one driver can cause so much noise for hundreds of people nearby.

There are cars and motorcycles that are guilty of making excess noise. Motorcycles make up a minority of traffic, but I would say about 50% of them are overly loud. As for cars, the vast majority of them are normal, and maybe 5% are the obnoxious noisemakers. These are my observations in Toronto.

Note - a week ago in the thread "High-powered motorcycle vibrations might impact iPhone camera", a good number of comments talked about excessive noise and the lack of enforcement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28491372

California has been doing a lot of effort to address the noise problem. They made new legislation to the point that it's almost impossible to get illegal exhaust systems installed on street bikes in the state, and that out of state exhaust system vendors will not ship product to the state. Folks interested in that have them shipped to Nevada and then "smuggled" in to the state.

There was also a recent anecdote that the CHP was enforcing noise regulations at a popular motorcycle destination/hangout. And you have to appreciate the difficulty of this, as it requires special equipment, and a specific process to perform the measurement, which is not something the typical CHP officer carries (I can't speak to their training if they, indeed, did have the equipment).

Also, violations are no longer "fix it" tickets, but immediate fines, which deter those that simply swap them out, get them checked out, and then swap them back in. There's also recent (past few years) requirements for badging and labeling from the manufacturers about compliance, and these need to be retained on the equipment which is an immediate violation if they're inspected and found lacking.

It's difficult to enforce in the wild. You can't, necessarily, readily cite someone for being "too loud". Just like you can't cite someone for going "too fast", they need an actual measurement, and they can't normally do that in the field. The labeling requirements help, as well as the fines to vendors and installers if they're caught facilitating the violation. Mind, many bikes are grandfathered in, and it will take more time for them to fade off the roads. But it should get better.

Right now, there is pressure back on the State because there's more legislation in the works that starts making it more and more difficult for folks that do, indeed, wish to modify their vehicles for competition and other off road activities. There should be balance, and it's not unheard of for the State to go too far and need to be reeled back in.

I remember riding through olive farms in Morocco. The smell was incredible.

I also have a lot of negative stories. Right now I have to ride 700 kilometres of highway in 14 degree cloudy weather to get home. My ears are ringing. They are sore from the ear plugs. I have to wear 4 layers of gear to make it. It's dreadful.

Yet I keep putting myself in that situation every year. It's that good.

Open topped cars are a nice compromise, you can always put the roof up or turn on the heated seats.

Plus constant emphasis on "safe driving" gives off this vibe that "if you just drive safe you will be fine".

I knew 100% that a bit of gravel in a turn, me or someone else not paying attention to the road, and a million other things could mean I'm dead or permanently disabled. Just the other day a couple died on a bike near here at low speed because a deer ran in front of them and they fell into the other side of traffic. That same scenario with a car and they are looking at minor injuries and car damage.

I chose to ride because I've always wanted to get that thrill and figured better do it before I had kids. Now that I got my son I don't ride anymore - it's just irresponsible IMO. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and think that people promoting "safe riding" are deluding themselves. You can drive smarter, but there's no reasonable definition of safety on a motorcycle going anywhere near the speeds that make it worth driving a motorcycle (even if speed is not your thing long distance riding requires non-trivial speed to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time). That said it's fun and I haven't been able to get the same feeling with other things. If you chose to do it you should know that you're taking a real gamble.

> On a bike, you get to smell the air. High on my list is riding behind a lemon truck. You get to feel the environment. It's hot. It's cold. It's wet. Ride through the desert and feel the temperature change as you drop down in to a wash, even if just for a few hundred feet before you rise back up in the heat.

I've described it like this before, but it feels less like driving than like running really quickly.

I also generally agree with this but I think it's area dependent. Living close to a major metro, there have been very few rides where I can genuinely say that I did not at one point almost get hit by another vehicle, but I can imagine it being much safer in a rural area.

Agreed. Part of the fun is all the danger that a bike brings. It's not a smart choice. It's a fun choice. There is nothing like hitting a perfectly banked road at a high speed and just feeling like you're part of the road. Nothing feels off and all you get is excitement. On the other hand, the 53rd car to make a left turn across oncoming traffic and not seeing you is exhausting. You always have to be exceedingly aware when riding a bike. One lazy mental moment and someone cuts you off and you go flying.

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