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Comment by koheripbal | Hacker News Reader

There is no world court or legal structure. The word "illegal" has no meaning in international affairs.

This action was performed in a specific country - Iran. I am sure it was illegal there. Isn't that enough?

There are many things which are illegal in Iran yet practiced widely, like consuming alcohol or being attracted to your own gender. I wouldn't use the Iranian book of laws as a moral compass myself, but to each their own.

How bizarre for you to sidestep the issue and go after issues with the laws of Iran! In what country is it legal to assassinate a scientist?

GP asked if the fact it's illegal in Iran is not enough, and I say the Iranian code of law has no implications on what I think is moral or not.

Personally I think that it is not outside any moral boundaries to assassinate a scientist which is working on WMDs. In fact, I'll claim the opposite: if you are a leader of a country which you know is potentially targeted by WMDs and you have the strategic and tactical opportunity to assassinate the people working on that program, then you should.

Going back to laws, being a scientist doesn't give you any kind of immunity to any law. It shouldn’t grant you immunity here. Once you work on military programs, it's all fair game.

We considered shooting Werner Heisenberg during WW2 if there was convincing evidence he was moving a Nazi atomic weapons program along. Certainly that would have been against German or Swiss (this was during a visit to Switzerland) law.

A key factor there is the word 'war'.

Did Iran and Israel ever sign a peace treaty? In 2020, the UAE normalized relations with Israel, and many countries took the opportunity to remind everyone that even if we are all dying of COVID, they would prefer that Israel go first.

It's not fricking world war 2, no matter the technicalities.

If a country you're at war with and whose leadership has stated that they intend to annihilate you is on the verge of developing nuclear weapons, the stakes are arguably WW2-tier.

Conversely, American and Israeli politicians constantly talk about taking out Iran, making nukes a necessity for their self-defense.

In both cases it's mostly posturing, but killing scientists and saying we had to, it's self defense is especially disgusting to me.

What are you talking about, according to the former Iranian president Iran has no homosexuals problem. See? Problem solved!

If Iran could (i.e. had the technological capabilities to) meaningfully retaliate against Israel (without suffering too much consequences), they very likely would.

Were you under the impression that groups like Mossad, CIA, etc were law abiding groups? Their entire mission is to do illegal shit to forward their countries' national interest.

So if these are not "law abiding" groups, then by definition part of what they do is illegal. Which is the word I used in my comment.

I don't understand these replies.

I'm a different person than the one who said nothing is illegal. I think nothing is illegal in international relations is a cop-out answer (and not technically true. I dont know about this particular act, but there are plenty of illegal things under int law). Technically yes - its unlikely to be resolved by a court. However i think most people agree that in general assainations are at least morally repugant (although im sure some people think its justified sometimes).

Anyways, lots of countries (Iran included) fund these type of spy groups. They do bad shit. That is their function. I imagine their masters think the ends justify means. Regardless, complaining that spy agencies are unethical is like complaining the mafia is unethical. Its just something that basically goes without saying.

I agree with everything you wrote here, but we talk past each other. The article was disturbing and it left an impression on me. There aren't many articles bragging about assassinations; CIA doesn't do that and if it did there would be domestic opposition. Yet the tone of this article makes it clear that they are not worried about that. That's why I wrote the original comment. It's not about "complaining that spy agencies are unethical". Deep down I just don't like what it represents and I don't think any post-hoc rationalisation will change that.

A legal system only has influence within its borders though (other than extradition treaties). And since the drone can't be prosecuted and the operators are outside of the borders, what can you do but give them bad press?

A lot of times when people say illegal, they really want to say immoral but that word sounds too out of place in common language.

Is it okay to assassinate scientists? How about tech CEOs and software engineers?

To me, the most troubling thing is that Iran seems to do nothing in response.

They aren't doing nothing, just nothing that can be publicized.

In many countries authoruzed military operation on foreign territory against what is perceived as existential thread to its existence is legal. So it is legal by Israeli law, isn't this enough?

UN's International Court of Justice (ICJ)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice

Let’s say I break a law and the ICJ decides to prosecute me. Who comes after me?

There's also ICC and INTERPOL, which are not part of the UN.

INTERPOL does come after you.

There are also extradition treaties.

Quite a few countries, including the US, do not recognize the jurisdiction of the ICC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute_of_the_Internatio...

ICC and INTERPOL both rely on member countries to actually enforce decisions. There is no ICC or INTERPOL “enforcement arm”.

Then why are people extradited ? Why is Assange in jail ?

Law is quite compatible with a state of anarchy and a lack of centralized authority, particularly customary law. Many people would include customary law as a kind of 'legal structure'.

The court that prosecuted the Nazis (and others) would like a word.

The same court that found Nazi’s guilty of a “war of aggression” for invading Poland when the judges bringing such charges did the same?

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