The Elizabeth Holmes Trial Is a Wake-Up Call for Sexism in Tech | Hacker News Reader

The Elizabeth Holmes Trial Is a Wake-Up Call for Sexism in Tech

nytimes.com

14 pointsallenleee18 comments

There's a big difference about making bold, broad claims about disrupting an industry, and lying about having developed a specific technology that is in actuality a complete fabrication. Even the most rampant bullshitters like Adam Neumann typically restrict their claims to mesmerizing future possibilities, rather than more specific claims about nonexistent sci-fi technology.

One interesting commonality they share is the willingness of established and powerful generals, bankers, and investors to champion their cause. It seems like the purest bullshitters have more backing from 'conventional' high status individuals than those with more weight to their claims.

Adam Neuman is every bit the fraudster Elizbeth Holmes is, he just wasn't in a regulated industry. He repeatedly fabricated fake financials and fradulent books to trick investors. His victims (private equity) mostly realized it was a scam and played a huge game of ponzi scheme until, for reasons that seem particularly murky, softbank made them all whole. No one had any illusions once Neuman starting cashing out his own positions in 2015.

> he just wasn't in a regulated industry

No… he wasn’t pushing out a product that can kill people. Telling people they are not sick when they are or vice versa is dangerous.

Ellen Pao has her own axe to grind. Ms. Holmes isn't on trial for being a woman, she's on trial for defrauding investors. The other male entrepreneurs Ms. Pao refers to have certainly been guilty of gaming the system -- isn't that what "disrupters" are supposed to do? But that's different from deliberately lying about the product you're trying to sell.

Agreed. A bit embarrassing she doesn't even mention that Sunny Balwani is charged with the exact same crime as Elizabeth Holmes. I feel like it would be legitimate to ask why the media covers them differently. However, very silly that her best arguments of sexism is to assert in throwaway lines that we could charge Zuck criminally for anti-vax statements on Facebook.

>could charge Zuck criminally for anti-vax statements on Facebook

Care to elaborate? I'm out of the loop on this one.

I can't get into the article now because I've reached my limit but there was a line that said "Why do we only charge Elizabeth Holmes? When will we find those CEOs who let blatant vaccine misinformation guilty of causing harm?"

If your view is that a CEO of a social media company should be held liable that really need its own op-ed, not a single sentence. I find it impossible to believe that one could think the reason the CEO of a social media site is not being charged is due to their gender. No one has been held liable (no publisher, writer, etc.) for vaccine misinfo. Its a complete garbage argument that undermines other legitimate claims of sexism in SV

> she's on trial for defrauding investors.

didnt her company lie to patients as well who took those tests?

How else would she garner support for her 10-person nonprofit funding her $2m/year lifestyle?

Some dislike Mrs. Pao for reasons other than her being a woman. Summoning sexism is a deliberate tactic to denounce critics, a fraud itself.

This is a dishonest article about sexism we had so many in recent times.

I hope she receives the same sentencing a male would get if he was guilty of the same.

Statistically unlikely.

These were medical tests they were lying about. People’s health was at risk. They lied to third and fourth stage cancer patients. Anyone who pointed out the problems were fired or sued. What a silly article to write. A man who did this would 100% be facing trial as well

> A man who did this would 100% be facing trial as well

In fact, her co-founder, a man, is facing the same criminal charges as she is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesh_Balwani#Criminal_charge...

The indictment names them as co-defendants:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download

not sure if a man would be facing trial, too, but would def support it.

i started to read this article but couldn't finish -- i just thought it was outlandish.

i'm been beating back my inner male chauvinist for decades -- which makes me pretty confident that playing the feminist card here is bullshit.

is the question answered on who or how many people were harmed or killed by Theranos?

if it's 'nobody' or 'not many' and truly 'not much harm', then i guess i don't care -- let her skate like the men would.

but if she and her co-conspirators ended up harming or killing people -- jail.

i do wonder if there is too strong of a cult of killing in the Valley.

like, anybody can be a criminal -- but how bad ass are you, really?

kind of like cheating in nascar or baseball -- the one-upsmanship -- some significant percentage of the fans _want_ you to cheat, and everybody in the game knows 100% you're cheating, in part because they're cheating, too (game respect game), but how far are you really willing to go to achieve fame and fortune and gain the respect of cheaters everywhere? are you willing to potentially kill people?

you run a monopoly? tired.

you built a real estate bubble off of one investor with way too much money and a bunch of lazy follow-up money? eh. nice, but did anybody but a few worker bees get 'harmed'?

you broke covid protocols and got some people killed? getting warmer.

oh - _you_ managed to sway an election, dial up the hatred in a few places, and get more than a few people killed in some riots. impressive, but you were really just stoking the flames a bit, right?

whoa -- you _faked_ cancer screening blood tests?? holy shit. are you still taking investments??

> not sure if a man would be facing trial, too, but would def support it.

Her co-defendant, a man, is also facing trial (in January 2022). See my previous reply to the parent comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28561842

It is indeed. CEOs shouldn't be put on a pedestal just because they are women.

LOL. How much should her sex protect her from creating a fraudulent diagnostic product that could lead to the deaths of patients? Women get a much easier pass in the criminal justice system, typically.

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