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Comment by hmottestad | Hacker News Reader

Most of Europe has 5 weeks of holidays. Funny how unlimited PTO in the US isn’t even close to the very limited time off we get in Europe.

Unlimited PTO should average 20 weeks a year to deserve to be called unlimited.

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FWIW, I've had unlimited PTO since the start of my career and I've definitely averaged somewhere between 5-6 weeks every year.

I think it's still a huge perk comparative to other options in America; companies that don't give unlimited typically just give 2 weeks, and you have to work your way up from there via the career ladder.

20 weeks of 52 week year? Even my liberal American brain can't seem make that work.

We have uPTO and never had a manager say no. But still only have taken 12 days this year. We are so brain washed here in the US.

People should be able to take 365 days a year if it is unlimited PTO.

I hate the USA for this kind of stuff.

Europe has some of the highest amount of vacation time in the world. It is not "very limited". Of course we would all like to take more though. Here's a map of each country's minimum mandatory vacation time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...

A 5GB data plan is very limited when compared to an unlimited one.

Not when at 1gig data used they drop you down in speed for the rest of the month.

You get more than 10% of your time off for work and that's "limited" to you? You expect your employer to pay you for not working 40% of the year?! Insanity.

1. I wouldn't call that necessarily insane, depending on the specifics of the work contract. 2. I think the objection to using the word "unlimited" is correct. The only way I can imagine a truly unlimited PTO policy working is if there were concrete performance metrics that I was expected to meet to retain my job. And if I manage to get a year's worth done on January 2nd, I can take off the rest of the year.

That’s priced in. It’s just fair that there is a mandatory amount for everyone and that’s the baseline.

It's not fair for people that don't want that and would rather work more for more compensation.

I don't know about insanity, in Europe it is very clear what the contract and law says, and it is very simple. People usually have the holidays around the same time of the year. Then again the salaries are much, much lower than (some parts) of the US. You could see it as a tradeoff.

However it varies from country to country but in my understanding the difference to US is drastic.

> You expect your employer to pay you for not working 40% of the year?! Insanity.

Insanity is saying "You have unlimited PTO", when actually it's a very normal 20 days / year or whatever. Unlimited !=20 days. Just say you have 20 days leave and then it's clear to everyone involved.

How is that insane? It's just a perk of the job.

And yes I agree with OP - 25 days of guaranteed PTO a year is pretty limited and nothing that special.

IMO payment is not needed, but I'd be happier in a world with 20 weeks of vacation per year.

That's called consulting. :)

It's not for everyone, but it's very flexible.

To be honest, I think this is quickly becoming an outdated way of thinking that favors the business. There is room in our current model to respect that businesses, and the people who found and run them, have a bottom line and also need to grow. But there is also a lot of room for workers to be treated much more humanely than they are today. Why not try to give people 10%, 20%, or more of their time off? A major goal should be humans living their best lives, not just businesses achieving the highest valuation or dollar profit possible. And that is not the current paradigm. Even in Tech, where workers probably have some of the best bargaining power of any sector, most of the humane treatment is lip service. A more worker centric model is an inevitability - more time off, less hours per day, and less days per week worked. It's already happening.

> You expect your employer to pay you for not working 40% of the year?!

No, but I expect if they won't that they do not call it "unlimited".

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