Comment by WalterBright | Hacker News Reader

Comment by WalterBright | Hacker News Reader

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> by being honest yourself youre setting yourself up to be exploited, misled or abused in the long run.

You might be surprised. Dishonest people miss out on a lot of opportunities, and they have no idea this is happening. When honorable people pick up cues (like your I'll be fair if you're fair) that a person is dishonest, they'll smile and nod and quietly put you on their "do not trust" list.

People on that list don't get offers that require trust, and those are the good offers.

Aside from that, being an honorable person is its own reward. Being honorable is what you do when nobody is looking.

Accepting a lowball offer, yet in your mind already deciding to renege on it, is dishonorable.

> As an aside, humans are animals, just smarter ones

Everyone gets to choose whether they are a man or an animal.

P.S. I have my failings. But I'm not going to pretend they are virtues.

P.P.S. You're not setting yourself up to be abused by being honorable. There's nothing dishonorable about not trusting people who haven't earned trust, or who have shown they aren't worthy of trust. For example, I wouldn't hire someone who told me their honor is contingent upon other people.

> Accepting a lowball offer, yet in your mind already deciding to renege on it, is dishonorable.

Note: they also know that I won't be working at my best. And if they'd reason through what I would say, then they'd understand what that entails.

I need to pay my bills, so if that's the best I can get then I'll have to take it. I've had this situation happening after applying to jobs for 18 months (as a fresh CS grad).

> Everyone gets to choose whether they are a man or an animal.

We've always been animals, we're not different enough to warrant a different classification. Chimpanzees can reason as well, so can Octopuses, crows and dolphins. They have abilities that we don't have and vice versa. There are many animals that have risen above simple instincts. There are enough experiments to show that old world monkeys have ethics and morality just like we do (including obvious altruistic behavior).

Also, I feel that the comparison is futile. Focus on developing yourself. Who cares if you think you're better than a macaque. Are you better than who you were 2 years ago? Do you feel your life is better? Are you happier because you invest in yourself and your community. IMO those are the things that matter. Comparing ourselves to animals and then implicitly claim that they have fucked up ethics (since they have no honor) is un-nuanced at best.

You have a brain that is capable of transcending your base animal instincts. I know I struggle with my base animal instincts and try to be a better man.

> I need to pay my bills, so if that's the best I can get then I'll have to take it.

Nothing wrong with that. But then reneging on the agreement is dishonorable. You're not starving.

> Comparing ourselves to animals and then implicitly claim that they have fucked up ethics (since they have no honor) is un-nuanced at best.

I don't fault animals for not having ethics, because they are incapable of having ethics. I don't fault children for not having behaviors that are beyond their abilities. I fault men who behave like animals, because men are capable of better.

BTW, people who work with monkeys have found, through bitter experience, that you cannot trust them. Statisticians have also determined that some apparently "altruistic" behavior in animals are statistically selfish, as in propagating their genes.

Dishonest people only miss out on opportunities when theyre identified as being dishonest. That's besides the point though, OP was talking about employing this approach only when the opposition is being dishonest. He may lead a completely honest life in the rest of his pursuits. I think thats a savvy way to live

I've had many people take advantage of my initial trust in their honor. It's been expensive.

But when they return my trust, it's been very good. For me, the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. My dad lived it, and he never ever broke a promise to me, or to anyone else I know of. It's the way I want to be. It's the way my friends are, too.

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