India’s caste system remains entrenched, 75 years after independence
economist.com
economist.com
Quite eye-opening. I wonder how things are today.
Demands are rather specific:
- ICS grade 3, seeking ICS, or a practicing lawyer
- MBA Columbia blah blah blah, glads outside top 100 need not apply
- Or even simpler: "seeking computer engineer, programmer, Java consultant for marriage"
The last almost fell me out of the chair.
This is definitely worse than the American use-case of Tinder, which focuses on factors of critical importance, such as a great ass and kinky proclivities.
Do you fit the requirements?
I most certainly know that cast system will not die out within our lifetime since I have friends who still cling on to caste and they are not from villages or small towns. It will take more than one generation to see any meaningful progress sadly.
See the newest class-y development: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-masking-of-the-servant-...
It’s largely ignored by most, dismissed or downvoted, and our society tends to pretend it’s not a problem.
I’m just pointing out that in the west, class is almost a verboten discussion.
We have a strong class system, based on location and studies that is being eroded by the tech industry.
Talking about it, making fun of it, or openly acknowledging it is the norm.
I think it's interesting that this comparison is the metric on which you come to the conclusion that class is more of a determinant to outcome than race. I dare to say that it's a sort of "Obama Fallacy" in action.
(Rest of it aside) that specifically doesn't seem necessarily that bad? If many of them aren't exactly devout Catholics ('converted to escape') then it seems reasonable they wouldn't (perhaps even want to!) reach high office. And there's perhaps a different stigma surrounding converts anyway, that's nothing specific to what they converted from or their status within it.
Among the "racist" people in the US, many are actually "classist". That also runs high in Indian society.
In my experience Christians are much more forward thinking and secular than other minorities in India. They live peacefully and blend very well with the Hindus. Even most of their names, outside of Goa, Mumbai, etc., are derived from Sanskrit, Tamil, Bengali roots depending on the region. A lot of Indian Christians will have only one name, i.e. middle name or first name identifying their Christian identity. Sometimes they often just ommit the Christian part except in official documents.
Anyway, this is a good sign totally as you say, but that is true in prosperous regions and/or households.
For backward regions and poor families, I am not sure if people will even let them hold religious offices.
Btw, even Christians can claim backward castes benefits if their ancestors happened to belong to a so called lower caste when they were not Christians.
Sadly, not by much.
Indian Christians have adopted many of the vices of the West ( the rates of divorce among Indian Christians are higher than Indians), but in terms of a broader outlook, I have seen this only in the sub-category of those living in big cities, and predominantly english-speaking and educated.
The Christians in rural areas continue to hold on to caste, despite all efforts. In some ways, the Church structures themselves are casteist, and bar people from being part of it.
This is especially true of non-Dalits but still lower castes.
The reality however is that the person is still shunned in their tight social circles.
So, for such individuals (and I know personally of many) -- they do not change their names, in fact they do not even marry by Christian traditions publicly because they may get outed.
There really is no number of how many such 'secret Christians' are there, but I would guess this number will be in the lakhs...
HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952698
The idea that the diaspora doesn't keep this stuff alive is false.
their progeny continue to reap the benefits at the cost of the rest of their own caste members. This segment actually rules India - the Brahmins continue to hang in there, but don't really rule at the top, though they are there.
A good example if you look is the Tamil Nadu government - primarily run by folk from castes who were at the forefront of the social reformation, but were not really low castes to begin with. Now, with power for nearly a century, they have strengthened their grips tighter.
Doing so not only perpetuates the evils of the discrimination, but amps it up to eleven, because now it is done with the full force and power of the government.
There is no policy basis more evil and counter-productive than the left's modern concept of "social justice", which is hateful and unjustifiably retributive at its heart. (Viz the left's current efforts to eliminate the truly blind auditions used in orchestras - according to the SJWs, merit must not be allowed to allocate job slots to the most capable and talented. That's the path to Harrison Bergeron...)
Over the years India has implemented several affirmative action programs (locally called "reservations") that ensures a more level playing field.
India has actually done reasonably well economically since 1995. Unless you can point to specific studies that correlate India's less-than-spectacular economic performance to the caste system directly, this is a fairly baseless statement. You only have to take a quick look at the last 10 year average GDP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_State_Hunger_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_rankings_of_Indi...
I didn't realise for a long time, but I looks back and see that somehow, upper caste kids always stuck together. There parents always had social events together, and even though we shared same society, other families weren't invited. Every 'class' has to have their own very public, very loud 'holidays'. Caste based marriages are pretty obvious, though that is changing slowly. People have biases in simple places, like simply knowing someone's surname means you can put them in a caste/category and then first impression is already made.
Things are changing, definitely, but slowly and not always in right direction. The 'reservation' or quotas in college admissions, government jobs and so on, created to make a level playing field is creating a new privileged class that is 'lower caste' in name only. This is creating new divide and I'm not sure thatcan be changed because suggesting otherwise is political suicide.
We had to get involved in the interview process multiple times as the talent is absolutely there. But left to their own devices a lot of the sites ended up hiring friends or "cousins".
I'm not sure if that came down to Caste or just "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours" but it was far from meritocratic.
There are times when a client selected person is not taken in but the reason has never been what you have described.
Please do not generalise.
Those who benefit from the reservation have incentive to keep the caste system alive.
Those who do not benefit from caste based reservation develop resentment against those who benefit, furthering the caste based divide.
Due to the abuse there is no political will to change anything.
I suspect it's trickier to learn about those structures in one's own culture.
Once you get out and about you have a new lens to look at your own society too - another viewpoint shines light into your blind spots.
When we understand the reasons, we can address the problem.
When we understand the reasons, we can address the problems
We abolished slavery and then replaced it with Jim Crow laws:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
We have the biggest concentration camps in the world for primarily people of color.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_...
https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration
“ Despite making up close to 5% of the global population, the U.S. has nearly 25% of the world’s prison population. Since 1970, our incarcerated population has increased by 700% – 2.3 million people in jail and prison today, far outpacing population growth and crime.
One out of every three Black boys born today can expect to go to prison in his lifetime, as can one of every six Latino boys—compared to one of every 17 white boys.”
Just thought I'd mention that, since the theme is apparently "random complaints which have nothing whatsoever to do with the linked article".
But I do hope you find a better garage to get your car serviced at.
All the best.
Cultures change, but at much lower frequency than the U.S. government's capability to do more than vaguely encourage.
The nation can collectively pursue different solutions to increase productivity as well as its own domestic security.
its clear we both would reach the conclusion that a more holistic solution is necessary than incarceration and the associated marginalizing
You're literally repeating a White-Nationalist talking point
Disgusting
Hyperbole much.
You should worry more about how such a small portion of the population can commit so much crime per capita, much more than any other demographic, even accounting for some bias of law enforcement.