Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwawaytire01 | Hacker News Reader

I am an engineer working in the tire industry (throwaway is needed here). The Michelin "Tweel" IP was actually acquired when Michelin bought BF Goodrich 31 years ago. Goodrich developed the concept as a replacement for compact spare tires, doing the initial R&D in the 1980s. Every 3--5 years Michelin has a press release like this, and the technology is always 3--5 years away from release. Currently the US DOT and it's equivalents abroad are still in the rulemaking phase regarding airfree technologies, so there's that, too.

View on HN

I've seen them quite a bit lately on commercial lawn mowers.

Of course, there, puncture resistance trumps vehicle control and ride comfort by a large margin.

i would love to see this or a similar technology for electric scooters. the tubes seem to reliably pop every dozen or so rides, and the current alternative solid/no-flat tires really compromise on ride quality and handling. larger wheels (they're usually in the 7-9" range) would help too, but there's probably a practical limit to how big the wheels can be, perhaps 12-15" without too much compromise (motor power and ergonomics being two limiting factors).

The unagi scooter has them[1]. In all honesty, they're garbage for NYC. They are somewhat of a hard plastic, and do not provide the kind of give that your want for roads which have imperfections. It saddens me that peoples first impression of micro mobility is this piece of junk that makes riding scarier and more dangerous than it would be with air tires.

It's likely possible to make a good airless tire, but I bet the materials would be expensive and I'm not sure what it's lifetime would be. Air tube tires remain the best option for micro mobility options.

1 - https://unagiscooters.com/products/the-scooter/ (ctrl+F "tires")

yah, i'm skeptical that a solid (rubber/plastic) tire can provide good suspension and handling performance cheaply across a wide variety of road hazards, in comparison to an air tire. that's why i think bigger tires (and thicker tubes) is probably the way to go, but perhaps advances in materials/manufacturing will make all kinds of tires incrementally better.

I was impressed by the Slime brand bike tire tubes. They're thicker rubber than the stock tubes and pre-filled with Slime self-sealing compound.

Thanks for explaining that. I feel like I heard about the "Tweel" in the 90s in Popular Mechanics, and occasionally since then.

> The Michelin "Tweel" IP was actually acquired when Michelin bought BF Goodrich 31 years ago.

If thw core patent is 31 years old then that means it's been in the public domain for 11 years. Anyone should be able to make a variation thereof at this point - steering clear of other derivative patents of coarse.

> the technology is always 3--5 years away from release

just in time for Tesla's FSD then /s

What are the reasons for it constantly being 3-5 years away? Technology? Regulations? Both? Manufacturers not thinking the public will understand tradeoffs and unwilling to take the risk and explain this to them? Can it at least work as a spare tire?

I can't answer your question exactly, but I can add that regular air tires have advanced tremendously in the last 30 years. It's also a moving target for these airless ones to compete against.

3-5 years means selling an extra 750-1250 million waste tires.

Thank you for perspective; I felt strongly that I've seen excited articles like this several times in the last decade or more. I was starting to wonder if I'm missing some changes or concepts that would explain the discrepancy :)

The video looked like a fancy PR piece and that's it. Sad that this tech has been shelved for 31 years. Maybe there isn't a viable go to market strategy.

I grew up down the street from NASA. Airless tires was always just a few years away since I learned to ride a bike.

NASA has some unique challenges because they usually can't use elastomers (too hot/cold), so their tires are usually metal.

Airless tires usually depend on a finely-tuned elastic polymer of some kind with a fairly narrow temperature range.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com