How to Escape Loneliness | Hacker News Reader

How to Escape Loneliness

whatsonyourmind.substack.com

79 pointsAniketP141 comments

It's weird how everything in this article seems true and logical, but at the same time it rings hollow and I feel like the author is missing an important point. From experience, for some people it will be hard to connect to most people, and thus you'll end up more lonely than usual most of the time. If at the same time you're a good listener and generous with your time, it can get exhausting to have lots of one-sided relationships.

Absolutely, being a lonely person that’s also a good listener is just the worst. You expect people to show at least some percentage of the interest that you have in their life (by listening to them). But my experience has been that the vast majority of people don’t listen at all. Note that listening != hearing.

I saw this in The Three-Body Problem:

> Everyone likes to reminisce, but no one wants to listen, and everyone feels annoyed when someone else tells a story.

That quote really resonated with me, as I realized how true it was for my interactions in the last few months.

> for my interactions in the last few months.

I read something on Twitter about the pandemic that really stuck with me:

Everyone needs more than anyone else has to give right now.

If that quote resonates with you all the time, then there may be a deeper problem at play. But right now, yeah, we're all feeling pretty tapped out.

It very well could be just the people in my life.

Btw, it's only that I noticed it the last few months. I think it's been going on far longer and more indicative of my relationships. Sadly.

The part about stories is not necessarily true though. If your story really is engaging or entertaining, you're scoring social points, people will be happy they listened and might ask you for more.

The problem is that most people overestimate how interesting their experience is to others.

I've definitely noticed an asymmetry, though. I engage and they don't. Yeah, I wasn't hugely interested in some of their stories, but I understand they are important to them, so I made the effort. Don't see the effort returned as often as I make it, that's all.

And it's not everyone, it's a subset of people.

How does one become a good listener ?

There are a couple of neat tips, like "echo-ing". This is when after someone says a sentence, you simply repeat back the last word(s) they said.

"I went to the beach last weekend, read a great book!" "You read a greak book?" "Yeah! It was by this author etc etc..."

It feels weird when you do it, but you never notice it when someone does it to you and it always feels nice because you know they were listening to you.

Also, the #1 thing is that you should be asking questions. Being a good listener is about asking questions 90% of the time, and those questions should be related to what the person is talking about.

For the previous example, if the conversation peters out, you can just ask something easy like "What is it about reading at the beach that you love so much?"

Try a couple of books on active listening and see if you find one that you like. Then try applying what you’ve learned in real life.

For me it’s putting my phone upside down, so I’m not distracted by the notifications, focusing on what the person is saying, repeating it back when appropriate, and by actively trying to understand their perspective / emotion(s).

For me it's a mix of curiosity, and trying to understand (or directly asking) what the person I'm talking to is getting at. For example, someone talks to you about something that happens at their job. Try to understand what they do in their job, their company, the people around them. Also try to understand their feeling. Are they looking angry? What made them angry? Why?

Part of this is just understanding communication, and what healthy communication looks like. The other part is knowing yourself, what you’re looking for, and being honest with where you’re at.

When developing a new relationship, friends or otherwise, it’s great to ask them questions about themselves, to try to learn more about them and to empathize with them. After awhile, generally the person realizes they’ve spent a lot of time talking about themselves and begin to ask you questions about yourself. If they don’t do that, then you’ve met someone, you learned a new perspective, and maybe consider trying again with another person somewhere else. It’s hard to find meaningfully good friends, but when you do, it’s worth it. Life, like coding, is just trial and error.

> After awhile, generally the person realizes they’ve spent a lot of time talking about themselves and begin to ask you questions about yourself

From my experience, this isn't really true. It's easy to see people for a long time and often, and never really have them ask anything about yourselves. Which means people asking about me is a powerful filter, which has its advantages.

> After awhile, generally the person realizes they’ve spent a lot of time talking about themselves and begin to ask you questions about yourself

They do not. After they are done talking, they notice "boy it's getting late, we should wrap this up". And next time they meet, they are full of new stories.

Have you tried not being a good listener? or cranking that knob down a bit.

Maybe you're coming across as a super interested in what people have to say, that you're artificially (can't think of a better word) keeping the conversation in their court.

Allowing the conversation to go silent and see what happens. If they don't want to reciprocate or don't appear to listen or seem interested, then maybe move on.

Note: I'm not dismissing and would largely agree to what you're saying (people just hear).

I cannot agree more with your last sentence. Even if the relationships aren't one sided, the feeling that they are is the worst and an enemy of action, so much so that the inaction becomes part of who you are and you start to take things in "it is what it is" without trying to communicate with others (speaking from experience).

I love to be alone but hate to be lonely, and I haven't found a balance of "what am I supposed to do" yet.

> I love to be alone but hate to be lonely, and I haven't found a balance of "what am I supposed to do" yet.

That's a great way to put it.

Some people here actively confuse "activity buddies" with friends. You can go to a board game night with a person for years and not develop a relationship with them. Friendship thrives on intimacy and mutual vulnerability. A friend is someone who can give you an honest opinion, or deliver a piece of bad news, or whose unsolicited advice you actually value. This kind of intimacy isn't something you build over a game of Settlers or at a rock-climbing gym. You build it mostly one on one, mostly while not doing something else. There aren't a ton of scaffolded options for this kind of unstructured bonding, and this is why friendship is more rare than just meeting up with some people to play Catan on Thursday nights.

Have we always changed our social circles so completely as we do now? We abandon our childhood friends to get education. Then we abandon our fellow students to get jobs. Then we switch jobs. And also, we socialize on a less personal plane with the people we work with. Maybe in a unnatural way as well. And at the end of the day when you are done working I think it takes tremendous effort to go socialize and build up a new social circle yet again. So it's a game rigged in the favor of loneliness. When I read such things I just think of the hunter gatherer society and how they would have lived compared to us and how we might have changed our social behavior. This complete change of social circles I can't imagine was that common.

> A whopping 46% of Americans report feeling sometimes or always alone.

Well, I always thought that I feel lonely because I'm a foreigner in US. It seems like the culture itself at least contributes partly.

There is a bizarre phenomenon that I don't understand about socializing in US: outside of specialized hobby groups or clubs, people don't do stuff when they are together. They just "hang out" around grills and pizzas. And it's not because of the lack of opportunities. If you are really good friends, you might go to watch a sports game or play sports together. If you are in a hiking hobbyist group, you might go hiking. But among general acquaintances, all participatory activities seem to disappear.

Whereas in China, you have the choice of KTV, escape rooms, cards, and all sorts of group recreational activities.

Of course, it could be that I'm hanging around the wrong crowd here in the US. My anecdotal experience certainly doesn't cover a lot of population.

These are definitely the people you’re hanging out with. I would say outside of parties/partying most socializing is activity-based, at least in my personal experience.

I'm not sure why you were downvoted, but your experience (or anyone's really) is going to be pretty idiocyncratic.

America is a big place (China is too!) and there are a lot of distinct sub-cultures. There absolutely is karaoke, escape rooms, cards, and all sorts of recreational activities in the US, and these wouldn't exist if nobody did them. In my experience these sort of things are mostly done by people 25 and under.

To be fair, watching television is a big part of American culture. Eating food is a big part of every culture I'm familiar with.

Also, I'd be suprised 46% of the population feeling lonely at least sometimes wasn't very normal in most highly urban and mobile societies.

Edit: accidentally slaughtered a few words

Americans, in my experience, have mastered the art of fake enthusiasm (and likely are the first to say "exciting" in an exchange). It seems to be overflowing into Canada, in fact (still anecdotal). No idea why they are unable to show real emotions but have to come across as enthusiastic, empathetic, all the good stuff. All this in public. I wonder what they deal with in the solitude of themselves, and how.

I think it is also cultural. Some cultures are more socially engaged than others, particularly through religion, and holidays.

Would the individualism of American culture contribute to loneliness?

> Would the individualism of American culture contribute to loneliness?

It does. People spend too much time on self-help and individual pursuits to actually hang around and waste time.

Wasting time in a "Time is money" society is contradictory.

I love programming (that’s why I’m on hacker news) but when I get into the zone it makes me feel… “wired” is the best way to describe it is or “switched on”. After I find it difficult to socialise, make conversation and switch off - and it contributes to a feeling of loneliness.

I know others get this feeling but for me it’s much longer lasting and stronger. The half-life is around days not hours and so it also impacts my weekends.

I then find it difficult to feel connected with my friends and partner and I hate myself for it.

In contract on holidays, I feel bubbly, the conversation flows and overall I am a much more sociable person.

The feeling of being wired is specifically linked to deep thinking when programming or doing maths. I don’t get it when I “work hard” for example writing. It impacts my thoughts, mind, mood and composition.

Does anyone else feel like this?

Yup. Programming and math can put me into a state of mind where it is hard to socialize with people. It takes hours or days to come out of that state of mind.

Absolutely, I can be a completely different person one week to the next depending on my work

I’ve found it helpful to explain the difficulties of programmer brain to others as being like trying to talk to me while I’m on the phone to someone. I can do it, but it’s not comfortable and I might not make you feel as connected as I’d want you to

That was a great read in a time I feel overwhelmed by a lot of stuff, loneliness being one of them.

> Seek Collectives

Being passionate about geeky stuff can be a lonely hobby if you live in a small city of a small country. Even at my job, I am the only developer at my department.

But what shocked me most while interviewing for a remote position, was the fact that it was difficult for me to talk about tech and describe what I previously did. The thing I am doing for a few years now and I couldn't talk normally about it, and it shocked me that I didn't have trained that "specific social muscle" at all because I don't have anyone to talk to about technology.

Now I am looking for better opportunities abroad, which is another amplifier of loneliness.

The American lifestyle is engineered specifically to fit a style that, whether intentional or not, promotes deep and debilitating loneliness.

You have to deliberately live in a very abnormal way to avoid it.

Most Americans have very little contact with strangers outside of their workplace. It's a real tragedy.

I spent 3 weeks in Germany a country not know for talkative or friendly people and I had more real and friendly conversations with others than three years in here in the US.

Ditto. At least in Berlin people will even let their neighbors in for parties, which seemed crazy to me as an American. I could never imagine opening my door and letting random folks come in my home.

In Berlin it's a lot more likely that your neighbor is someone you'd want to party with, too.

In suburban America the concept of a block party is relatively common. All neighbors in a cul-de-sac/street get together and eat/drink.

I've lived in several US suburbs and as far as I've seen block parties in suburbs only happen on TV. Suburbs are actively antisocial places.

Street festivals and that sort of stuff actually happen in NYC, which is, of course, not a suburb.

But if I understand the party is usually on the street or yards (I could be wrong, I’ve never lived in that type of suburb). People generally don’t open their homes, right?

And I think the young male culture of gaming is only making it worse. (Observations from my 20 yr old college student son and his friends.)

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