Spain: Linking to Copyright Infringing Material Not Infringement | Hacker News Reader

Spain: Linking to Copyright Infringing Material Not Infringement

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51 pointssrl16 comments

However, I don't follow the opposite train of thought.

If linking to copyright infringing material is infringement itself, then it surely must be infringing to link to material that is linking to copyright infringing material? Otherwise Piratebay could just give pointers to 3rd party services that host torrents that point to infringing material. (Well, magnet links could be considered links to torrents that link to warez.)

But that technically leads to a situation where you can't link to any site that could host links (to links) to infringing material. Mention piratebay.org -- oops, a link. Or you previously linked to some site that now has these copyright infringing links. Boom, you're infringing copyright.

That might be nerd's thinking but you really do have to have the line drawn somewhere because laws must generally be well-defined. You can't have a gray area where legality of something depends on the whim of the case. Linking is either illegal or it isn't, and if it's illegal it must be clear what constitutes linking.

It says linking to copyright infringing material is not infringement.

... in Spain

Yes and no. Case law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_law) is one of the most powerful tools to defend yourself in court. Obviously you can't be reporting a judicial decision taken in Iran to sue a group of homosexuals and kill them, but the thing is that you can refer to previous judicial decisions if sued in a court within the European union. In fact in this judicial process the lawyer referred to similar binding precedents in the Netherlands. I'm not quite sure about how the legal system works there in the US but I guess that citing previous sentences of EU's courts can be of certain help when sued for something as ridiculous as this (i'm not 100% certain about this tho). Source: I'm Spanish and the SGAE (equivalent for the american RIAA in Spain) is always on the newspapers' frontpage for such idiotic things...

Even though I live in the US I am not really sure how the royalties system works here. In Spain there is a society, called SGAE (Sociedad General de Autores Espanyoles) that collects the money from the artist that they represent. This society is really related with the current political party in power (PSOE) and since the judicial power has been consistently saying what the current links says (linking to copyright infringing material is no infringement) they are pursuing a law to evade the judges and close websites without any requirement from the judge.

If a hair salon (for example) in the US plays music of an artist, do they have to pay a canon/fee for playing this music? I am asking because I am still shocked than in Spain they have to pay the SGAE...

If a business in the US plays music, even if it's just a cafe or a hair salon, even if it's just a public radio station, yes they have to pay a license fee.

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/

The big problem with SGAE and other similar organizations is that they don't explain what they do with the money and how they distribute it to their members, in fact now the managers od the SGAE are now being accused of theft and mismanagement of the money using it for their own businneses instead of for what is supposed to be. And the problem is that the government which should control then failed to do it. And in Spain even the blank CDs and DVDs have a tax that goes to them, so imagine how much money they control.

It's Sociedad General de Autores y Editores, and it doesn't collect money anymore.

EU rendered their business illegal and recent corruption news obliged the government to pass a bill taking away their right to collect, afaik.

You're right about the name, but I think they still collect money, what they're not collecting right now is just the digital canon.

They're not collecting the digital canon from companies.

Spain generally seems to have the right take on intellectual property. They also do not allow software patents.

I wonder if Spain could become the new hub for startups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_Euro...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate

Investment in Spain has been (traditionally) far away from technology. Starting a company in Spain is not easy and people are generally looking for a stable job, they don't want to take the risk of starting a new company.

In my opinion, Spain doesn't have (in general) the culture of the entrepreneur even though some cities (like Barcelona) are trying to change it (22@, for example: http://www.22barcelona.com/index.php?lang=en).

Agree here; it's very painful to find people with an entrepreneur mindset in Spain. Even if you find someone who says he/she is an entrepreneur, usually they are very far removed from it compared to other countries; very little to no risk taking, always that hang to stability in income and living situation. Comfort over anything else.

On the other hand, this does open opportunities; Spain has one of the highest unemployment % of the world because of this; people want stable jobs and they want them provided on a silver platter, but there really is not too little work. If you open a company, on your own or with other people (foreigners included), there is tons of work for people who want to work. And then this unwillingness to take (even very small) risks, is a competitive advantage.

Just to give my 2 cents. Madrid is by far the Spanish city making the biggest effort to provide its inhabitants a nice entrepreneur-friendly environment.

To cite a few: http://www.startupbootcamp.org/european-cities/#madrid http://www.seedrocket.com/ http://betabeers.com/ http://blog.tetuanvalley.com/ http://madridemprende.esmadrid.com/ http://wayra.org

And I'm missing a lot of them. The entrepreneurial scene and the agile people over here are making an enormous effort to bring this city as a true startup hub in Europe, and they've accomplished this in 1 year. Like they say in reddit, IAMA guy sort of involved in this scene, ask me anything. Lol

This is just an example of one of Spain's problems: We waste to much time an energy arguing about who has the biggest dick. Barcelona or Madrid?

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