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Comment by deadbunny | Hacker News Reader

I recently gave a friend my old PC, I installed Windows, updated it then did a factory reset so they could go through the first run setup themselves. Watching them set the machine up and blindly agreeing to all telemetry without even blinking really opened my eyes to how much "normal" people dont care about telemetry.

The great irony here is that we - technical people - have done this to ourselves. We opt out of telemetry (as we should IMO) as a default so out usage patterns never get sent to the mothership. So of course Windows gets dumbed down, options disappear, and the OS gets targeted at the normal folk.

I have no horse in this race to be fair as a linux user but I do find it amusing.

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I have my first Linux machine since this weekend, and I really love how that feels a lot like old school Windows. Just an OS running on your own hardware, no calling home, no cloud, no account somewhere if I don't want to. And surprisingly easy to install as well, again not really more difficult than, say, setting up Windows XP yourself. or Windows 2000.

It is really quite refreshing to have some of the freedom from the "old days" back. Honestly, I don't think I'll go back for private usage. Work is different, a) because employers provide hard- and software and b) because Office 365 is quite good for corporate use.

What makes you think that old school Windows didn't use telemetry?

(I ask because I'm genuinely curious, not just playing devil's advocate -- I strongly suspect that even in 2000, Microsoft was collecting user data. But I'm to young to have been in the industry at the time, so maybe telemetry just wasn't that big in 2000?)

> The great irony here is that we - technical people - have done this to ourselves. We opt out of telemetry (as we should IMO) as a default so out usage patterns never get sent to the mothership. So of course Windows gets dumbed down, options disappear, and the OS gets targeted at the normal folk.

There's no irony here. Even if every single technically apt user sent their feedback to Microsoft at once, it would still be drowned out by the 99% of the general population that clicks through everything without reading or adjusting.

It's not even close, and we shouldn't be giving MS the benefit of the doubt anymore, considering what they've done to Windows in the last 10 years. They did it deliberately, while hiding behind "improving user experience" and "security".

Heck people default to donating their organs if that’s the option that’s preset when they register for a driving license. Or the reverse if that’s the option that’s preset. It’s not even close: whatever is the default option, no matter how serious, the vast majority of people seem to shrug and get on with their day.

>Heck people default to donating their organs if that’s the option that’s preset when they register for a driving license

They do in the Netherlands

I am so comfortable with personal computers that I take it for granted how intimidating the setup can be for the average Joe and Jane. Telling someone to change which app handles a certain file extension is like a mechanic telling me how to adjust one of the valves inside of a carburetor. Certainly do-able, but a nightmare to someone who thinks they can break the whole thing with one wrong move.

There is nothing wrong with well-implemented telemetry. It's an extremely valuable tool for improving software quality. I don't understand the antipathy some people have for it.

I'm not strongly against telemetry, but I previously wrote a comment explaining why I question the need for it (which was a source of cognitive dissonance given my employer at the time): https://lobste.rs/s/htbkqd/console_do_not_track#c_hqev1u

I worked for Mozilla over a period during which we went to having no telemetry to good telemetry and the benefits for quality were huge, especially for crashes. Without crash telemetry you simply have to guess which bugs are the most important to fix first. With telemetry you know. This is especially important when a bug suddenly shows up in the field, e.g. some antivirus vendor ships an update that breaks your product. Diverse teams are good but you are never going to have a team that truly represents the experiences of non-technical people.

If you don't understand something that most people have an agreed viewpoint on you might want to spend some time reflecting.

Reflecting on what? I never see any well-reasoned arguments against telemetry. It's just "any data collected for any purpose must be EVIL".

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